Wire ES2 and Lyric to a Stereo Jack

[Hendrik]

Hey folks,

I wanted to experiment with the sound of my acoustic guitar (Taylor 810 ES2) for a while now and narrowed it down by now to installing a second pickup.

It's either gonna be an M80 or a Lyric system.. still trying to figure out which one. I guess when going for a more natural sound the Lyric is the way to go. For further experiments (especially Reverb and other effects down the road) a magnetic pickup like the M80 makes more sense to me.

Anyhow I'm noooooooot really fond of drilling a hole inside my guitar to install a second endpin jack. I haven't ruled it out, but it's a last resort kinda thing.

Is it possible to install a stereo jack, wire the existing ES2 to it and in addition the Lyric as well? (And would that be a good idea?) I know about some second pickup solder option on the lyric preamp buuuut that doesn't seem to work with active pickups.

[Cuki79]

In principe, Taylor said it's possible to retrofit an ES1. I think there are people who did it. In this case all you need is the ES1 end pin jack which is stereo. You can buy new ones in some webshops



Just write to Taylor and ask for compatibility. If remember well there is only two screws.

Note that it is possible that ES2 use the same endpin with 3 contacts and that the middle ring is used to turn the preamp on and off.

To test, Just try to plug a TRS jack in yout Taylor and see if the red light turns on. If it does not, you already have a stereo socket so all you need is soldering skills.

[Hendrik]

Thanks for your reply Cuki79.
I'll give it a try and see if there's been a stereo jack behind the ES2 all along.

Also L R Baggs customer support answered the following (within the same day!):

"The Lyric has an option to add a passive pickup onto it’s existing stereo jack. However, if you want to use it with an active pickup like the ES2, you would need to drill our a second hole in the guitar, and install a second battery.

There’s really no good way to combine two active systems in a guitar onto the same output jack. "

So I guess I'm gonna go for the second endpin hole.

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by Hendrik

Thanks for your reply Cuki79.
I'll give it a try and see if there's been a stereo jack behind the ES2 all along.

Also L R Baggs customer support answered the following (within the same day!):

"The Lyric has an option to add a passive pickup onto it’s existing stereo jack. However, if you want to use it with an active pickup like the ES2, you would need to drill our a second hole in the guitar, and install a second battery.

There’s really no good way to combine two active systems in a guitar onto the same output jack. "

So I guess I'm gonna go for the second endpin hole.

This is not true if you have a bit of electronic skills. Many AGF members have replaced the ES1 succesfully: including Lyric (see sencond link).

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...25&postcount=1

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...97&postcount=5

[Cuki79]

One advantage is that ES2 has its preamp behind the buttons and not on the endpin jack. You can be sure of that because when you install the endpin jack with bluetooth temperature/chock monitoring on any Taylor.

So basically the endin jack of Taylor only hold a fuse and a fancy connector.

1) You can remove the endpinjack (only the metal jack and the PCB), keep the battery compartment and the whole Taylor plastic structure.

2) Replace the endpin jack by your Lyric

3) Then rewire the GND and signal to your Lyric

4) Then rewire your Lyric battery plug to the Taylor (to have only one battery to power both preamps)

The only problem is that you will have no "on-off" jack switching anymore... That should be solved before any operation. However there must be a solution, since Baggs this option possible... So it means they have thought about that.

Don't drill yet.

[Cuki79]

Another nice example

http://www.chubbuckguitars.com/bench...r-814ce-49-lbs

[Cuki79]

Why don't you like your ES2 sound alone?

Maybe you should try Tonedexter first don't you think?


Regards,
Cuki

[rschultz]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

This is not true if you have a bit of electronic skills. Many AGF members have replaced the ES1 succesfully: including Lyric (see sencond link).

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...25&postcount=1

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...97&postcount=5

So mixing 2 active sources may be possible as shown above... but it's much simpler to add a passive 2nd source to the primary active source. Adding a passive mag or K&K would seem very easy compared to both sources being active.

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by rschultz

So mixing 2 active sources may be possible as shown above... but it's much simpler to add a passive 2nd source to the primary active source. Adding a passive mag or K&K would seem very easy compared to both sources being active.

Si,ce the Taylor preamp is not in the endpin jack the difference is soldering 2 wires.

Even if you choose the passive mic. Taylor end pin is not meant to have two sources. So you have to replace the jack and get rid of the PCB. So you still have to wire the 9V battery and the ES2 to the new jack.

You don't save yourself much effort.

[martingitdave]

I'll chime in. The preamp in the ES2 is very hot. It will be much hotter than the Lyric, if I were to guess. Should you go down this road, you'll need to rewire your Taylor for outboard mixing and preamp control. If you are not already handy with electronics, allow me to offer some advice. Stop.

ES2 is already one of the best natural sounding pickups on the market. If you don't like it, you don't like pickups period. You're not alone. Even the best pickup is worse than the worst microphone. I'm quoting Cuki.

You're going to spend a lot of money altering your guitar and buying outboard mixing gear, and you still won't like the results. If you want microphone quality output, spend the money on a new Tondexter device.

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by Hendrik

Thanks for your reply Cuki79.
I'll give it a try and see if there's been a stereo jack behind the ES2 all along.

Also L R Baggs customer support answered the following (within the same day!):

"The Lyric has an option to add a passive pickup onto it’s existing stereo jack. However, if you want to use it with an active pickup like the ES2, you would need to drill our a second hole in the guitar, and install a second battery.

There’s really no good way to combine two active systems in a guitar onto the same output jack. "

So I guess I'm gonna go for the second endpin hole.

Have you thought about the Baggs LB6? It's a passive pickup that's pretty high-output and, in my opinion, better sounding than the Element or a Fishman Matrix. It has high-headroom and low quack and you can wire it to the stereo jack w/o any problem. If you want some more string presence and a lot of power without feedback, it's still the standard.

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by MrErikJ

Have you thought about the Baggs LB6? It's a passive pickup that's pretty high-output and, in my opinion, better sounding than the Element or a Fishman Matrix. It has high-headroom and low quack and you can wire it to the stereo jack w/o any problem. If you want some more string presence and a lot of power without feedback, it's still the standard.

It's very risky, I doubt the LB6 would not alter the ES2 sound.

My 2 cents,
Cuki

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

It's very risky, I doubt the LB6 would not alter the ES2 sound.

My 2 cents,
Cuki

Whoops, are we talking about wiring a secondary pickup to a Lyric or the ES2? I'm getting confused.

I definitely wouldn't recommend adding the LB6 to the ES2 (that's some severe Piezo on Piezo action), but I might suggest the LB6 wired to the jack of the Lyric. However, if you're wanting to add a mic to the ES2, I might suggest something more discrete than the Lyric and passive. You could try any number of electret or small condensor mics, which would require less alteration.

Another good addition may be the Pickup the World Quackbuster, which as long as your impedance matches, you can wire to the same terminal as the ES2 and get a 50/50 blend of piezo & SBT or wire in stereo for different blends.

My bad if I lost my way.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

I'll chime in. The preamp in the ES2 is very hot. It will be much hotter than the Lyric, if I were to guess. Should you go down this road, you'll need to rewire your Taylor for outboard mixing and preamp control. If you are not already handy with electronics, allow me to offer some advice. Stop.

ES2 is already one of the best natural sounding pickups on the market. If you don't like it, you don't like pickups period. You're not alone. Even the best pickup is worse than the worst microphone. I'm quoting Cuki.

You're going to spend a lot of money altering your guitar and buying outboard mixing gear, and you still won't like the results. If you want microphone quality output, spend the money on a new Tondexter device.

I totally second David's advice! The ToneDexter is $399 plus $18 shipping, with no hacking-up of your guitar or its excellent ES2 system, and the ToneDexter can be used with any acoustic instrument with different types of pickup systems. Get 'Dexterized--I just did!

[Hendrik]

Oh wow, this thread exploded overnight. Thanks for all th input, ideas and recommendations! Alright let's see...

Originally Posted by Cuki79

Don't drill yet

alright I'll keep it together for now. Good advise to be found here. Looking forward to the new options opening up.

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

I totally second David's advice! The ToneDexter is $399 plus $18 shipping, with no hacking-up of your guitar or its excellent ES2 system, and the ToneDexter can be used with any acoustic instrument with different types of pickup systems. Get 'Dexterized--I just did!

I actually looked up the tonedexter a couple days ago. If it's anything like the demos on youtube it's worth a try. I'll definitely consider that!

Originally Posted by martingitdave

I'll chime in. The preamp in the ES2 is very hot. It will be much hotter than the Lyric, if I were to guess. Should you go down this road, you'll need to rewire your Taylor for outboard mixing and preamp control. If you are not already handy with electronics, allow me to offer some advice. Stop.

ES2 is already one of the best natural sounding pickups on the market. If you don't like it, you don't like pickups period. You're not alone. Even the best pickup is worse than the worst microphone. I'm quoting Cuki.

You're going to spend a lot of money altering your guitar and buying outboard mixing gear, and you still won't like the results. If you want microphone quality output, spend the money on a new Tondexter device.

Regarding the ES2 - yes the preamp is pretty much on fire. I had more than one sound technician complain about the signal this pickup can push through (which is not a bad thing..the sound techs were just not used to it I guess).
And yes it has a very good sound! I feel like it polarized the community rather quick.. people either rip it out of their guitar right away or they love it.

Well I'm totally satisfied with the ES2, don't get me wrong. I just feel like I'm not "there yet" and on my way developing a new sound I also waged the "second pickup" option. I've actually looked at the tonedexter just two days ago! If it's anything like the demo I'd definitely give it a shot. How do you like it so far?

All in all I guess I like the idea of having a second pickup so I can fiddle around with it and meanwhile preserve the ES2 sound I already have and like. You probably all know the video of charlie worsham and his gear:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg8K6_EcQNg

That's where I got a lot of those ideas from. He has a similar approach of running a clean signal on his first pickup + a second pickup that he basically turns into a synthesizer with his gigantic pedalboard.

What do you guys think when you'd take effects into consideration? Is a second pickup useful to dial in the effects when wanted/needed or would you rather just put it all through one pickup?