A website with free "lessons" for players

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Toby Walker

I still will say that by offering free lessons, you're picking the pockets of the dedicated musicians who depend on teaching as part, or as the whole source of their income. Where is your philanthropy in doing that??

There is already lots of free lessons and advice out there, and regarding this type of thing it is not a moral question. To rise above what is offered for free and attract customers what is needed is to do it better and/or to offer methods and material that are somewhat unique.

[Grinning Boy]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

There is already lots of free lessons and advice out there, and regarding this type of thing it is not a moral question. To rise about what is offered for free and attract customers what is needed is to do it better and/or to offer methods and material that are somewhat unique.

Yes this is very true. And if I understand the concept correctly now, this is an effort to take the forum concept one (or two) steps higher by finding a way to connect in person through skype or whatever, other people who share similar goals, or perhaps have already worked through something you are presently working on to help with your progress. In that case that concept may supplement and enhance the efforts of real teachers out there rather than replace.

[Burzum1349]

Originally Posted by Grinning Boy

Yes this is very true. And if I understand the concept correctly now, this is an effort to take the forum concept one (or two) steps higher by finding a way to connect in person through skype or whatever, other people who share similar goals, or perhaps have already worked through something you are presently working on to help with your progress. In that case that concept may supplement and enhance the efforts of real teachers out there rather than replace.

This is perfect. I love the way you stated that. This is what I think. The idea came out as a website, but that's not even needed. I mean, this is a site dedicated to guitar. We are all here already. All that would have to be done is a thread that anyone who would like to do this can add info on. It could just be a paragraph or two. But dedicated to that specific purpose so people know they can get in direct contact with these people using this method and know that they are ok with it and when.

Something along the lines of :

My name is blah. My preferred styles of music are: How long ive been playing for, what I'm able to confidently teach, what I'm open to talking about. This is my contact information, if you contact me I will respond and we can get in touch on how to amplify this communication.

[Grinning Boy]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

.......Back in 1995, I wrote a paper that is about 70 pages long, detailing the CAGED system AND how to use it. I provided a step by step description of diatonic theory, how the CAGED system applies, and how to make use of all that. The paper is all over the internet, and has been since then.
Tony

One great thing about this forum is finding out about things like this.

Not until the arranging study group threads started up did I understand who Tony is. A lot of old timers and others around here already know this for sure, but Tony actually WROTE THE BOOK, literally, about the CAGED system. It's an incredible document into which it is obvious he poured his heart and soul in writing it. I thought I recognized his name when the arranging threads started here. Tony's a cult and folk hero in the guitar world!

[Burzum1349]

Originally Posted by Grinning Boy

One great thing about this forum is finding out about things like this.

Not until the arranging study group threads started up did I understand who Tony is. A lot of old timers and others around here already know this for sure, but Tony actually WROTE THE BOOK, literally, about the CAGED system. It's an incredible document into which it is obvious he poured his heart and soul in writing it. I thought I recognized his name when the arranging threads started here. Tony's a cult and folk hero in the guitar world!

You see I agree with that. I started searching forums and my interest in classical guitar has brought me to some excellent sources. Had these forums not been around I most likely wouldn't have found them, and if I did I surely wouldn't have understood their purpose. I'm starting to think forums are an invaluable asset. This one in particular has really opened my eyes to what is possible with a driven community. I absolutely love the ability to share information with others.

[dkstott]

I attended a free workshop recently on CAGED... I had learned it in the past simply as a method of learning where to find chords. Ernie Hawkins, & others.

The instructor handed out one 1 sheet of paper during the workshop that made everything come together for me.

It had 4 columns.. The 1st column was the various CAGED shapes. 2nd column had the Arpeggios for that shape. 3rd column had the pentatonic scale associated with the shape and the last column had the Diatonic scale associated with the shape.

It was the 1st time I had ever seen it presented in that manner... It tied CAGED chord shapes to their arpeggios & scales.. all on ONE single sheet of paper. Useable anywhere on the fretboard

Originally Posted by Grinning Boy

One great thing about this forum is finding out about things like this.

Not until the arranging study group threads started up did I understand who Tony is. A lot of old timers and others around here already know this for sure, but Tony actually WROTE THE BOOK, literally, about the CAGED system. It's an incredible document into which it is obvious he poured his heart and soul in writing it. I thought I recognized his name when the arranging threads started here. Tony's a cult and folk hero in the guitar world!

[Burzum1349]

Do you happen to have that available? I would like to have that for my "records".

[Grinning Boy]

Originally Posted by Burzum1349

This is perfect. I love the way you stated that. This is what I think. The idea came out as a website, but that's not even needed. I mean, this is a site dedicated to guitar. We are all here already. All that would have to be done is a thread that anyone who would like to do this can add info on. It could just be a paragraph or two. But dedicated to that specific purpose so people know they can get in direct contact with these people using this method and know that they are ok with it and when.

Something along the lines of :

My name is blah. My preferred styles of music are: How long ive been playing for, what I'm able to confidently teach, what I'm open to talking about. This is my contact information, if you contact me I will respond and we can get in touch on how to amplify this communication.

Hi Burzum,

Test runs for this concept have been the 3 group arranging threads in recent weeks (2 with specific songs and one with Rick-Slo's melody). I feel those may have taken the forum concept to the next level as we have on point videos and recordings to discuss etc. It's not all just typed words.

[Pitar]

I think the best teacher is, as usual, the student. The teachers are usually nothing more than pass-throughs of information that the observers (students) metabolize to the extent that they can teach themselves. If one cares to analyze it, that's the truth regarding teacher/student relationships.

I've never taught anyone anything. I've only shown them what I do and they pick it up from there. The idea of placing a value on that is to say that my time is valuable and I should be compensated for it. That would be the perspective of the for-gain teacher who has such an income to protect. Naturally, he or she will defend it that way. But, not being a for-gain person of music, mine is simply a watch and learn proposition if the observer has the desire to pick up what I'm putting down. If the desire is not there, paid or free lessons will have the same effect - little to none.

I get that the income stream for many here is from selling their music knowledge and playing skills. I don't slight them for it. But, as a self-taught player mine has always been a gift to me from me and then to others. I taught myself to sight read scores and to only show people how to do that. Tab is a crutch and should not be part of any lesson. People who depend on tab are teaching themselves to be dependent on tab first and their ears second. Bad method. If a person asks for a tab from me I'll provide a link to a score and call it Old Guy Tab, if a score is available, but most of my own work is developed by ear and yet to be scored, if ever, because I'm just not that tightly wrapped up in it to spend time with Sibelius scoring stuff versus having fun playing.

The OP is looking for advancement through a co-op of like-minded people who care to share skills and music in the spirit of the free (gratis) sharing of an art form versus others who are in it as a business first and expression of art second. In the contrast of the two, it's easy to see where the divergence lies and, though one can't slight the other, mutual agreement is probably not a common point they share; two ships passing. Still, plenty of people see the lessons as helpful and obtain them as readily as they would an item from a grocer. No big deal, and the lessons really aren't budget threatening for many.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by Pitar

I think the best teacher is, as usual, the student.

[other interesting commentary deleted...]

David Sudnow, in his piano course, said that the best teacher is the motivated student.

In the course, he explained how folks can teach themselves to play in a "cocktail" style using voicing rules and block chording to play tunes from a lead sheet.

In the course, he explained that he wanted the student to play all 12 major scales, one octave, right hand, every day until you could play them on time, perfectly within 2 minutes, one octave up and one octave down for each scales. The course consisted pretty much of a recorded live weekend seminar. One student asked if he should learn them in order, one at a time, or two at a time, or ....

David responded saying that these types questions were little more than a "lack of caring". The student was told to learn all 12 major scales so he could play them through without mistakes within 2 minutes, which is pretty slow.

Sudnow said that if he told the group that he would give $10,000 to the person asking the questions, if he accomplished this within, say, three days, that person would run out of the room so fast and get to his piano to get it done. He said that if the rest of the class went to this guy's home to watch, they would get a lesson in motivation and learning, because that student would figure out how to accomplish it, no matter what it took. He said that you REALLY have to want this, if you are going to be successful.

He further said that the teacher has forgotten what it is like to not know how to do the thing, and to want so badly to learn it.

However, all of this is based on having the proper guidance to clearly understand what it is you need to do to accomplish the goal of learning the skill. What we don't need is to go to the teacher every week to be told "just keep doing what you are doing, you are doing fine". Sudnow felt that there were many (not all) skills that a person could teach him or herself with some initial guidance on what to do and how to do it, and then it is up to the student on his or her own to maintain the motivation to do those things consistently.

With his piano course, he was teaching a very narrow, specific skill, and said that if you want to learn to play classical, then you probably do need to have a coach because that is like preparing for the "Olympics", where what he was teaching is a pleasant past time for folks who want to enjoy playing their favorite tunes on the piano.

So, while there may be truth to what Sudnow said, it really depends on the scope of the skill a person is wanting to learn.

You could, for example, show a person how to teach him or herself to learn to Travis pick in an afternoon at most, and then send the person off by him or herself to learn it. The person comes back, and you show that person how to add a melody on top of the chords, and again send the person off to do it alone. For these skills, you really don't need to show up every week for months at a time or have a big course with a bunch of DVDs or even a whole book. Of course, that too depends on how much the student can do already. You may have to teach the person basic "cowboy" chords and how to develop some facility.

So, at the end of all that, it really depends on the person and the skill and what the person already knows about that general knowledge domain.

Tony

[tbeltrans]

Regarding TAB and notation and the ear, I personally feel that any of these are valid ways to take in musical information. They each have their strengths and weaknesses (except the ear being the absolute final word, which is first and foremost since music is a HEARING art, after all).

My problem with TAB is not the nomenclature, but my experience with grabbing TAB from those free sites. I tried just one or two, so my sample is small. The TAB was so inaccurate that I decided not to waste my time anymore. I could easily hear that it was just wrong and I wonder if the people that do those can really hear the music. There is "hearing the music" as a consumer, and then there is "hearing the music" as a musician with a developed sense of relative pitch. I doubt the latter was involved in the TABs I tried.

I do use fakebooks, the Real Books and other lead sheet collections, so I can't claim to have done much with reading TAB from books edited and published by the pros (Hal Leonard, et al). I would assume these would be pretty good. Those guys are professional (meaning they get paid to do this stuff), so I would think they would be better and more careful with their work.

I can read standard notation and find that to be valuable. I am not trying to preach that everybody should be able to do this. However, there are WONDERFUL arrangements by some really good arrangers of standards and pop tunes for classical guitar by the likes of Stan Ayeroff, Howard Heitmeyer, and Harold Streeter, and others. I like the transcriptions of ragtime music by the classical guitar folks much better than the fingerpicking stuff. It just flows better and sounds sweeter. There is also a lot of great music from a few hundred years of classical guitar that can be really enjoyable to explore. Being able to read standard notation opens those doors, and is a small price to pay to learn it. Of course, not everybody is interested in that music, so as usual, individual choice, YMMV, etc.

Tony

[dkstott]

It's funny, when I started to learn jazz. I got the usual routine instruction of learning all 12 keys, etc... It's frustrating as heck because most jazz instruction is focused on horn players because of their inability to play in guitar friendly keys.

THEN I found an instructor with what I call common sense. I learned key's and note locations as I needed them. We'd spend a month on G, then move to A, etc... There are still a bunch of keys (mostly flats) that I can't play off the top of my head. Since I'm never going to play with a horn players, I'll probably never have a need to.

I like tab and standard notation. I love it when the arrangement has both on the sheet.

My issue with tab is the same as Tony's...most on the internet have major gaps of inaccuracy. The worst ones are the DVD lessons that come with booklets of tab that don't match what is played on the DVD.

Tab also doesn't give you any indication of tempo, etc.. So tab can be just about useless when trying to play something you have never heard.

I'm off my soapbox about Tab.

Dave

[EllaMom]

I've decided that I am now a tab-lightly kinda gal!

It does have its uses, still, for me, but I prefer the musical notation, melody notes only, with chord indications noted above that. I look to the tab to get me over complex passages (basically, chords I don't know) until I can go back and figure out the chord, play just the chord, figure if/how it fits into the song, etc.

I don't know how much I'd use a resource that the OP is exploring in this thread, however. There is SO MUCH information out there, and "in here"....I quickly become swamped with information, not all of which is objective. The love/hate relationship with tabs, for instance!

I'd say more, but I gotta go practice.

[SunnyDee]

Originally Posted by dkstott

THEN I found an instructor with what I call common sense. I learned key's and note locations as I needed them. We'd spend a month on G, then move to A, etc... There are still a bunch of keys (mostly flats) that I can't play off the top of my head.

Dave

Hi, Dave - I hope you don't mind my asking since we're all discussing learning and teaching in here, but I never understand why people say there are keys they can't play in. (Likewise I see people say they avoid songs with sharps or flats). I feel like I'm missing something important and I hope you don't mind elaborating.

It seems to me once you know the key signature, you know how many sharps and flats. You might need that for finding the roots of chords. The chords, if you play them barres, are all the same shapes no matter where you put them. Even if you play partial barres you could work from there. If, instead you are playing melody, if you're playing a major scale, it's the same intervals in any key, minor the same as any other minor in any key. I do understand completely that some chords are difficult to transition. I often need to work on a new progression. Maybe you're just referring to that? But if it's something else, what am I missing?

[SunnyDee]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

David Sudnow, in his piano course, said that the best teacher is the motivated student.


Tony

I'm that kind of student. I always say I can't afford a teacher better than I am. Which is true. But I'm also an international teacher trainer at university level. It's my job to be a good teacher. Not everyone has those skills.

I've been following this and especially your comments, but you are exactly right if you are politely saying that much of the teaching out there is quite weak. A good teacher has to have a good big picture view so that s/he can simplify things without making them too simplistic by presenting the most salient points clearly. I haven't found too much of that online, but I will say, I'm incredibly grateful for the technology of the internet as well as the generosity of so many people sharing information and music. I can't imagine having learned all I have this year without these things even if it does require near endless googling.