Computer for recording

lossforgain · #1 10-21-2008, 08:16 AM

Need to buy one for my office at church. I intend to use it to write and record original music and parts for the rehearsal use of my musicians. I would also self-produce original music (in my free time!

). Also would take it into the auditorium to do live band recording from our Allen and Heath board.

I haven't bought a computer for this purpose since before Pro Tools was even well-known. I'm thinking I want to do Pro Tools this time around...not sure if I need a control surface or not.

Opinions? What would you include in this machine? PC or Mac (ducks)?

Rodger · #2 10-21-2008, 06:26 PM

I tried ProTools LE with a Digi001 interface on a Dell 2.4Ghz PC. Had problems when I got up around 12 tracks - lock ups constantly. I had been a PC guy since the mid-90's. My son-in-law (IT guy who was working for a local university's music college at the time) convinced me to go to a Mac and my problems would be solved.

So, I went with a Mac G5 (Intel dual core processors) and ProTools LE 7.3 with Digi002 rack interface. Problems solved. I've recorded up to about 30 tracks per song with no problems. I added many UAD effects plugins. UAD sells PC Boards that plug into your computer that supply the computing power to run them, so your computer is dedicated to the ProTools stuff. I used them with the Dell also, so effects were not the reason for lockups. The Digi002 is a firewire device, so the computer has to have a firewire input.

A key is to get 2 hard drives - one for system software and one for music storage - all your ProTools tracks will go on the storage drive. About 500GB should be fine. My ProTools songs tend to be about 1GB or more when finished.

I should warn you - the Mac ran me about $3200 and ProTools LE (Digi003 is now the offering) will be about $1,500 - $2,000... so, this is not a cheap proposition. I love my studio - ProTools has a learning curve, but not too bad IMO. Throw in some effects plugins and you're easily over $6,000. then, there's mics and preamps - it just never ends. I think recording acquisition syndrome is as bad a guitar acquisition syndrome.

Good luck.

Bobby1note · #3 10-22-2008, 12:50 AM

lossforgain,

I just started putting together my home studio, and decided to go with a Mac as well. I didn't need portability, so I went with a 2.4Ghz Core 2 Duo 20" iMac, and I'll max out the RAM at 4 gigs, and go with an external hard-drive; probably 500GB, 7200 rpm FW. I'll also add a second 20" monitor. Should be more than enough for my needs for the next while. I also decided to go with an Apogee Duet interface, and Logic Studio. I was attracted to the integration between Apple, Apogee, and Logic, and the Apogee converters and pre-amps are excellent (75db gain). All told, I'm looking at roughly $3200 plus tax so far.

From there, I'll be adding a matched pair of Oktava Mk 012 sdc mics, one LDC (undetermined, possibly Shure KSM44 to start). I'm also considering one or possibly two external pre-amps, and some of the contenders are the A-Designs Pacifica, API A2D, and the Great River MP2NV. Fortunately, I live not too far away from a wonderful studio equipment store, Studio Economik in Montreal, and they'll let me rent all the mics and pre-amps I want, then, they'll apply 100% of the rental fee against the purchase price of whatever gear I finally decide to buy. Superb service. Takes away all the pressure of making the "right" decision. I can take my time and see what works best for me.

http://economik.com/index.php?notFound=1

As far as monitors are concerned, I already have a superb set of monitors, but they're a very large studio-monitor (Spendor SA-3 active, bi-amped/ UK). I'd like to get a decent pair of near-field monitors, and I'm really torn there. The best I've heard to date, are the Klein & Hummel 0 300's. Stunning, but very pricey ($5k/pr). The Focal Twin 6 be are also very good. ($3k/pr). I'm not 100% convinced I'll go there quite yet. I may opt for a less expensive NF monitor for the time being (Focal Solo 6, K&H 0 110, Adams A7 ??). and if the recording thing works out, then go with the Klein & Hummel 0 300's at a later date, and possibly add the Euphonix MC Control. Time will tell.

Good luck with your rig,

Bob

rdm321 · #4 10-22-2008, 08:06 AM

I am also a Mac user. I must emphasisze that if you do go with a Mac, definitely get an external hard drive for storage, and be sure that it's "high-speed" ie 7200 rpm. Also, buy extra RAM at time of purchase; get the maximum possible amount.

I picked up a 1 TB La Cie external drive with Fire Wire connection that was preformatted for Mac (saved me lots of formatting effort). This should last me a long long time.

cheers, and enjoy the project.
R

Bobby1note · #5 10-22-2008, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdm321

Also, buy extra RAM at time of purchase; get the maximum possible amount.

R

I dunno about that part.

Apple sells their RAM at close to 4x market value. I ordered my Mac with 1 gig, and I'll swap that out for 4 gigs of aftermarket RAM for roughly $85. You just have to be certain that you buy the correct RAM.

Bob

missouri.picker · #6 10-22-2008, 12:43 PM

you owe it to yourself to take a look at the sweetwater site and check out their sale on computer music workstations

Devin · #7 10-22-2008, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by missouri.picker

you owe it to yourself to take a look at the sweetwater site and check out their sale on computer music workstations

I have a Creation Station from Sweetwater, running and Mbox 2 and Pro Tools... I also have a M-Audio Axiom 25 midi controller/keyboard, Blue Tube preamp and a few entry level mics... Nice set-up so far, but I have just scratched the surface at this point, and am still learning...

There is a lot to learn! I never fooled around with midi, editing, mixing, etc... It takes a lot of time to just start to get where you can track instruments (fairly straight forward), edit tracks, add plug-in effects, work with drum grooves, virtual instruments, etc...

Making it all sound professional (or close) is another story... No doubt, be ready for some hard work. If I can do it, you can too.

For quick ideas, etc., I use a Zoom H2... That is a nice tool for capturing a rehersal, pusing out a quick progression, etc...

- Devin

rdm321 · #8 10-22-2008, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby1note

I dunno about that part.

Apple sells their RAM at close to 4x market value. I ordered my Mac with 1 gig, and I'll swap that out for 4 gigs of aftermarket RAM for roughly $85. You just have to be certain that you buy the correct RAM.

Bob

Voua avez raison, Bob. I should have said "before use", rather than "at purchase"

cheers
R

ljguitar · #9 10-22-2008, 04:30 PM

Hi loss4gain...
I operated a small production studio for 8 years on a Mac tower with (by today's standards) a single 500 mhz processor...up to 26 tracks at a time without hiccups.

I used (and preferred) a Mark of the Unicorn firewire interface, and recorded directly to external firewire drives. I like MOTU's software better, and I have owned/used ProTools, and Cubase as well...all three are very capable

In 8 years it crashed only once, when someone in the other room (with the processor) unplugged an active drive. We rebooted, didn't lose anything, and were up and running in 10 minutes...

If I were doing what you are attempting, I'd be hanging out in some recording room forums instead of on a guitar site (we are smart, but you are taking on a major project when recording a band). There are several tacks you can take when recording bands - live or produced.

Hope this helps...

wthurman · #10 10-22-2008, 06:14 PM

Let me say that I will never use ProTools. I use Samplitude, and it's less glitchy, less expensive for the full version, has a better learning curve, and I don't need to buy a Mac to make it work well.

sdelsolray · #11 10-22-2008, 06:21 PM

Mac laptop, Digi003 (perhaps with one of the Black Lion mods), Sytek preamp (4 channels), an 8 channel pre/ADAT. That will give you 16 simultaneous channels. You can add 2 more if needed. Add a few plugins beyond the standard Digidesign ones.

Bobby1note · #12 10-23-2008, 12:05 AM

+1 on the Sytek. I've been considering one as well. Talk about "bang-for-the-buck".

http://www.sytek-audio-systems.com/p.../preamps/mpx4/

Bob

lossforgain · #13 10-23-2008, 10:48 AM

Thanks for all the thoughts guys.

I'm not sure whether I will do Pro Tools or not. I've used and liked Sonar in the past -- maybe I could do Sonar plus an interface of my choice? Maybe I'd save some $$$. Plus when I've used it, I did it on a PC with no trouble. Pro Tools sounds like it wants/needs a MAC to keep it stable.

If I did get a Mac, I think I'd have to get an iMac just because of cost. Are they powerful enough?

RE: interfaces, if I want to record the band live and do one track per mic/instrument input from the board, I'll need 16-20 inputs. What interface unit would you recommend?

I'm calling Sweetwater today to try to learn more.

Devin · #14 10-24-2008, 02:18 PM

You know what else I used? A program called "Reaper", and you can get it for free... Pretty powerful recording software, with a very small footprint... You may want to download a copy and start fooling around. I was running that on a very old Dell PC, and I could run quite a few tracks without a problem... Plus it uses VST plug ins (and there are a bunch of pretty good ones out there for free)...

This would be a least cost model...

Pro Tools on the right PC runs fine, it just is picky. If you know you have the right chip set, etc. you should have very few problems. That is why I went with the Sweetwater PC - I just did not wnat to screw around with a system that might not be optimal...

- Devin

lossforgain · #15 10-25-2008, 02:23 PM

Thanks Devin and all,

I ordered a Sweetwater Creation PC and a Digi 003+ with ProTools LE after I talked things through with my rep on the phone. As you said, their PCs are built with ProTools in mind with the right chipsets.

I can't wait to start Tool-ing around! Too bad the 003+ doesn't ship until mid-November.