Alternating thumb: Why is it so hard?

[agfsteve]

If I'm riding a bike, my legs know exactly what to do; I don't think to myself, push down with the right foot, then the left, then the right, etc., so why can't I just make my thumb do the same binary type of operation?

I am trying to play the first four bars or so of the melody of the Beatles song, I Want you (She's So Heavy), over an open Am chord, so my thumb just needs to alternate between the A and D strings, while my fingers pick out the simple melody notes, which for the fretting hand only involves putting down and lifting up my pinky on the B string, 3rd fret (all other melody notes can be played using the open Am position).

When I tried just to pick out the melody (so ignoring the thumb) for these first four bars or so, I got it right first time, so it took me all of thirty seconds or so. So then all I need to do is add in the alternating thumb on the A and D strings, so that's like the riding-a-bike thing where you don't even need to think about it, but noooo, doing the two things together is probably going to take me another hour or more of stupefyingly boring practice; very frustrating.

So any way, just venting, I realise there is no short cut or trick to learning this, I just have to put in the hours and try not to drive myself insane in the process.

[Wyllys]

Go to YouTube and search for "Spike Drivers Blues Mississippi John Hurt".

Greatest little tune for having fun while putting in the time needed to get your thumb on auto-pilot.

W

[agfsteve]

Originally Posted by Wyllys

Go to YouTube and search for "Spike Drivers Blues Mississippi John Hurt".

Greatest little tune for having fun while putting in the time needed to get your thumb on auto-pilot.

W

Excellent, thank you! I think that is going to become the second tune that I learn all the way through, to add to Freight Train.

I found this rather eccentric lesson on Spike Driver Blues:

[reeve21]

Originally Posted by agfsteve

Excellent, thank you! I think that is going to become the second tune that I learn all the way through, to add to Freight Train.

I found this rather eccentric lesson on Spike Driver Blues:

I'm guilty of watching that video all the way through to the end. It was kind of like going by a car wreck, you can't look away :-)

[agfsteve]

Originally Posted by reeve21

I'm guilty of watching that video all the way through to the end. It was kind of like going by a car wreck, you can't look away :-)

I know what you mean, but I genuinely enjoyed it.

[s0cks]

When you first rode a bike were you able to do it without thinking?

[Wyllys]

Originally Posted by s0cks

When you first rode a bike were you able to do it without thinking?

I think so...

[Wyllys]

Originally Posted by reeve21

I'm guilty of watching that video all the way through to the end. It was kind of like going by a car wreck, you can't look away :-)

I lasted about 15 seconds. That's the last time I tell someone to search instead of posting the link!!!

[agfsteve]

Originally Posted by s0cks

When you first rode a bike were you able to do it without thinking?

I don't really remember, but I was probably about five years old, so I'm guessing not a lot of thought went into it.

I guess I should be glad I don't fall off any hurt myself playing guitar, although it might be a good incentive to get it right.

[SunnyDee]

Originally Posted by agfsteve

So then all I need to do is add in the alternating thumb on the A and D strings, so that's like the riding-a-bike thing where you don't even need to think about it, but noooo, doing the two things together is probably going to take me another hour or more of stupefyingly boring practice; very frustrating.

I know you just wanted to vent, but...

For me, it is far easier to count with the thumb first, and then add the melody. Once I have the beat going, the melody fits into it easily. The way I look at it, practice is repetition, it's not practice if I don't have it right yet, and for me, that means I need to slow waaaaay down, almost slow motion, so I get the motion right, for just a few minutes, so I don't practice mistakes. I get something new much faster this way.

[agfsteve]

Originally Posted by Wyllys

I lasted about 15 seconds. That's the last time I tell someone to search instead of posting the link!!!

LOL, I thought it was cool, although I could have done without the gammy knee shots.

[s0cks]

Originally Posted by agfsteve

I don't really remember, but I was probably about five years old, so I'm guessing not a lot of thought went into it.

I guess I should be glad I don't fall off any hurt myself playing guitar, although it might be a good incentive to get it right.

Well, I have a 1yr old and he still falls over a lot and loses his balance just walking. The point I was trying to make, that has obviously been lost, is that everything you do for the first time requires extra thought. That's just how the brain works. You need to strengthen the neuron pathways over time. It took me months to learn my first alternating bass with melody tune all the way through. Now that same song would take me probably a day.

[agfsteve]

Originally Posted by SunnyDee

I know you just wanted to vent, but...

For me, it is far easier to count with the thumb first, and then add the melody. Once I have the beat going, the melody fits into it easily. The way I look at it, practice is repetition, it's not practice if I don't have it right yet, and for me, that means I need to slow waaaaay down, almost slow motion, so I get the motion right, for just a few minutes, so I don't practice mistakes. I get something new much faster this way.

I kind of agree, but I think you have to know what the melody is first. I think it would be a good idea to play the melody on its own first, just so that you have it worked out, then maybe get the thumb going on it's own, so that you don't have to focus on it, then re-introduce the melody that you've already worked out. I'm not sure if I did that in this case, but it's one way of trying to get it to work.

I agree on playing slowly. The problem that I sometimes run into is that I have to play it so slowly that each note or pinch becomes so isolated that there is no flow, rhythm, or even musicality to it.

[SunnyDee]

Originally Posted by agfsteve

I kind of agree, but I think you have to know what the melody is first. I think it would be a good idea to play the melody on its own first, just so that you have it worked out, then maybe get the thumb going on it's own, so that you don't have to focus on it, then re-introduce the melody that you've already worked out. I'm not sure if I did that in this case, but it's one way of trying to get it to work.

I agree on playing slowly. The problem that I sometimes run into is that I have to play it so slowly that each note or pinch becomes so isolated that there is no flow, rhythm, or even musicality to it.

I think you're right on both these. I would know the melody, but add it back to the beat. And yeah, I try to play very ,very slow "micro-movements" when learning something new but some things you just can't, like a riff with hammer-ons. Doesn't work at all. :P

[agfsteve]

Originally Posted by s0cks

Well, I have a 1yr old and he still falls over a lot and loses his balance just walking. The point I was trying to make, that has obviously been lost, is that everything you do for the first time requires extra thought. That's just how the brain works. You need to strengthen the neuron pathways over time. It took me months to learn my first alternating bass with melody tune all the way through. Now that same song would take me probably a day.

No, your point is well taken, it's just the way I think of it is that the human brain can do so many amazing things, yet combining these two elementary tasks, neither of which, for the non-beginner guitarist, requires much in the way of thought, additional dexterity or physical strength, becomes extremely challenging.