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  #16  
Old 06-13-2017, 09:50 AM
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Bruce Sexauer Bruce Sexauer is offline
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Gorilla glue IS a closed cell polyurethane filler IMO. The process described by the OP would be a great way to turn an acoustic guitar into a high volume low feedback performance instrument, possibly even better than a toilet seat, but would have devastating consequences on the efficacy as an acoustic instrument.
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  #17  
Old 06-13-2017, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Earl49 View Post
Take it one [small] step further and just fill the entire guitar with expanding closed-cell urethane foam. Then no moisture can get in or out. Of course, sound won't escape either and the surfaces won't vibrate, but that's a different issue.

Run! Run like the wind! Don't even let this guy change guitar strings for you! He'll find a way to muck that up.......
No, he doesn't touch my guitars, he just happens to be next to a bike shop that I frequent. Thanks for the urethane foam idea, I appreciate the input
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  #18  
Old 06-13-2017, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer View Post
Gorilla glue IS a closed cell polyurethane filler IMO. The process described by the OP would be a great way to turn an acoustic guitar into a high volume low feedback performance instrument, possibly even better than a toilet seat, but would have devastating consequences on the efficacy as an acoustic instrument.
Maybe I should have said ' Titebond' instead of 'Gorilla Glue', as it is a yellow wood glue. Not that it matters.
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  #19  
Old 06-13-2017, 04:21 PM
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Maybe I should have said ' Titebond' instead of 'Gorilla Glue', as it is a yellow wood glue. Not that it matters.
Original, Type II or Type III?
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  #20  
Old 06-13-2017, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by guitars. View Post
Maybe I should have said ' Titebond' instead of 'Gorilla Glue', as it is a yellow wood glue. Not that it matters.
I did wonder about the "mixing with boiling water" bit.

My experience with polyurethane glue (which is what Gorilla glue is) is that although it requires the presence of moisture to allow it to cure properly, it is almost impossible to clean off your hands with any water-based cleaner.

I am highly skeptical that it could ever be diluted with water, even boiling water.... and I have no intention of finding out.
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  #21  
Old 06-14-2017, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by murrmac123 View Post
I did wonder about the "mixing with boiling water" bit.

My experience with polyurethane glue (which is what Gorilla glue is) is that although it requires the presence of moisture to allow it to cure properly, it is almost impossible to clean off your hands with any water-based cleaner.

I am highly skeptical that it could ever be diluted with water, even boiling water.... and I have no intention of finding out.
gorilla wood glue, not that it matters.

http://www.gorillatough.com/gorilla-...A6tBoCgSfw_wcB
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  #22  
Old 06-14-2017, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
Original, Type II or Type III?
Type II ... again, not that it matters.
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  #23  
Old 06-14-2017, 09:18 AM
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Actually it does matter. Most of us think of Gorilla Glue as being the Polyurethane glue that foams up. The wood glue is entirely different. That would dissolve in water. It's a PVA glue not used in guitar making as far as I can tell. None the less it's a terrible idea.
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  #24  
Old 06-14-2017, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by redir View Post
Actually it does matter. Most of us think of Gorilla Glue as being the Polyurethane glue that foams up. The wood glue is entirely different. That would dissolve in water. It's a PVA glue not used in guitar making as far as I can tell. None the less it's a terrible idea.


Ya. I realize that was a faux pas on the initial question. But it really doesn't matter the type of glue, there has been zero responses to qualify this as a 'good idea', regardless of glue type.
As I suspected ... Thanks !
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  #25  
Old 06-17-2017, 06:07 PM
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In addition to violating the "no extra, unnecessary weight" rule of thumb, the inside-sealant/finish idea contradicts what I was told from numerous sources when I was learning to build: that a guitar wants to breathe, and that we want the liquid and semi-liquid contents of the wood cells to either evaporate or solidify over time. I'm no wood scientist, so I don't know if the above is true, but I picked it up from numerous sources, since it's not illogical to ask "if finishing the outside is good, wouldn't finishing the inside be good too?"
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  #26  
Old 06-17-2017, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Fingers View Post
In addition to violating the "no extra, unnecessary weight" rule of thumb, the inside-sealant/finish idea contradicts what I was told from numerous sources when I was learning to build: that a guitar wants to breathe, and that we want the liquid and semi-liquid contents of the wood cells to either evaporate or solidify over time. I'm no wood scientist, so I don't know if the above is true, but I picked it up from numerous sources, since it's not illogical to ask "if finishing the outside is good, wouldn't finishing the inside be good too?"


Sort of what I was thinking. Also, a carbon fibre guitar is sealed and still resonates.


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1978 Yamaha G-231 - Classical
2012 Gretsch G3500 - Folk

Electrics:
2005 Fender MIA Strat - modified
2000 Fender MIM Strat - very modified
2014 Fender MIM Telecaster - Custom Shop designed
1980s Telecaster partscaster
2005 Godin SD22 - PRS USA pickups
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  #27  
Old 06-18-2017, 03:38 PM
Alan Carruth Alan Carruth is offline
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I was happy to see the direction this thread took: the concept of mixing polyurethane glue with boiling water scared the hecks out of me. PU foams up enthusiastically when it hits a little bit of cold water; I can't imagine what it would do if you dumped some in boiling water, or vice versa. I don't hanker to try.

You can mix Titebond with a small amount of lukewarm water to thin it for some applications without losing too much strength. I use about 10% water in the glue for really large laminations to keep it flowing while I get all the clamps on. Boy, does it get runny...

I suppose something like thinned out T3 would work as a sealer. Some folks do advocate sealing the insides, but I think it's a bad idea. There really is nothing practical you can do to totally eliminate moisture exchange in wood. Slowing it down might help to reduce some kinds of cracking, but is unlikely to stop it entirely. At some point the wood will crack, and when it does you'll need to repair it. Anything that is effective at slowing moisture exchange is also going to make it hard to repair, since glue probably won't stick to it well. The usual wash coat of thinned out shellac is probably as helpful as anything in slowing down the appearance of cracks, and at least it's thin enough to sand off when you need to (a pain, but doable...). Titebond is a bear to sand by comparison.

As has been said, the guy should stick to toilet seat solid bodies.
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  #28  
Old 06-19-2017, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Carruth View Post
I was happy to see the direction this thread took: the concept of mixing polyurethane glue with boiling water scared the hecks out of me. PU foams up enthusiastically when it hits a little bit of cold water; I can't imagine what it would do if you dumped some in boiling water, or vice versa. I don't hanker to try.



You can mix Titebond with a small amount of lukewarm water to thin it for some applications without losing too much strength. I use about 10% water in the glue for really large laminations to keep it flowing while I get all the clamps on. Boy, does it get runny...



I suppose something like thinned out T3 would work as a sealer. Some folks do advocate sealing the insides, but I think it's a bad idea. There really is nothing practical you can do to totally eliminate moisture exchange in wood. Slowing it down might help to reduce some kinds of cracking, but is unlikely to stop it entirely. At some point the wood will crack, and when it does you'll need to repair it. Anything that is effective at slowing moisture exchange is also going to make it hard to repair, since glue probably won't stick to it well. The usual wash coat of thinned out shellac is probably as helpful as anything in slowing down the appearance of cracks, and at least it's thin enough to sand off when you need to (a pain, but doable...). Titebond is a bear to sand by comparison.



As has been said, the guy should stick to toilet seat solid bodies.


Thanks!


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Acoustics:
1970 Maya F344R - 6 String
1969 Kiso Suzuki 628/12 - 12 String
1978 Yamaha G-231 - Classical
2012 Gretsch G3500 - Folk

Electrics:
2005 Fender MIA Strat - modified
2000 Fender MIM Strat - very modified
2014 Fender MIM Telecaster - Custom Shop designed
1980s Telecaster partscaster
2005 Godin SD22 - PRS USA pickups
2006 Fender MIM P-Bass
1970s Marches MIJ Jazz Bass
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