D-18>Two AKG C-1000s Mics Vrs 102's sound test....

[Yamaha Man]

Now to really confuse you, here are the same takes with EQ and Multi-Band Compression added. All effects are exactly the same settings.

C-1000S....
http://www.soundclick.com/player/sin...&q=hi&newref=1

TLM 102....
http://www.soundclick.com/player/sin...&q=hi&newref=1

and finally the SM7b....
http://www.soundclick.com/player/sin...&q=hi&newref=1

This is what I want to know, what's the final sound going to be like ...???(rough idea)

[Yamaha Man]

and the winner is ...????

TLM 102 !!!!!!!!

[Doug Young]

There's something funky going on here. The C1000's are phase reversed - 1 mic appears to be in completely inverse phase from the other. This could be a miswired mic cable, a mis-wired mic, or a bad setting on your input device. The 102s are more aligned, but also a bit wonky somehow. Your levels are also radically different between the takes, which makes it hard to compare between mics (even if the phase was fixed). (I'm listening to your raw takes)

I don't know what you're recording with, but most DAWs have some time of phase meter you can monitor with to make sure mics are reasonably in phase.

[Yamaha Man]

I have Sonar Platinum and Adobe Audition CS6. I'm not sure about phase meters but Sonar does have a phase inverter switch in the mixer. I tried inverting one of the channels of the C-1000 sample and sure enough it sounded better...you can hear the inverted sample here....


http://www.soundclick.com/player/sin...&q=hi&newref=1

Thanks for the input, it's appreciated. I think Audition may have a phase meter but I've never used it, I'll have to hunt around for it.

This is a mystery to me as the mics are brand new, the cables are brand new, going into a Focusrite 18i8 interface...I'm not sure how the phase switch occurred.

[Doug Young]

In AA CS6, look under Window->Phase Meter and/or Phase Analysis. You can also check levels with Window->Amplitude Statistics. You can also use Window->Match Volume to compare 2 tracks and adjust their volume levels to be (nearly) the same

[Yamaha Man]

Thanks, I found the Phase meter in Audition. It's reading all over the place. There's only one adjustment I can find that flips the phase.

I'm wondering would Ozone 7 by iZotope have phase correction capabilities ??

[Doug Young]

Yes, Ozone can fix phase, but that's not the best way to handle it. If the polarity is flipped, as it is with your C1000's, that's an easy fix. Best to track it down and see if you have a miswired cable, etc, but any DAW should be able to flip polarity if that's the only way to do it. If the phase is off by something in between a total polarity shift, you fix that with mic positioning. You'll never be totally in phase, unless you are in mono. Phase is frequency dependent, and will indeed jump all over the place in meters. But you want to be in mostly positive correlation (toward the +1 side of the phase meter). Different mic placement techniques produce different phase relationships. X/Y will be mostly in phase, spaced pairs will be rather uncorrelated - that's part of what creates the sound of spaced pairs. But you ideally want to be as correlated as you can (reading toward +1 on the phase meter, and never toward -1) within the characteristics of any given mic setup.

[Yamaha Man]

Thanks Doug. I may have used old mic cables as I just got a new set in the other day. I'm not sure if the recording was used with the new cables, sooo I made a new recording of the C-1000's with the new cables. I was very careful to set both mics equal distance from the guitar, and exactly 12" apart. The Phase Meter in Audition shows them to be in phase and not jumping around like they were before. Here's the recording I just made.

http://www.soundclick.com/player/sin...&q=hi&newref=1

It very well may have been a problem with the very old cables.

[Doug Young]

The phase meter isn't jumping around because now you have mono. Something still wrong. You might want to spend some time learning to use the metering you have. Check out some commercial guitar recordings and see what stereo looks like in the various meters, what it sounds like when played back,.

[Yamaha Man]

Thanks Doug, yep you're right, I goofed up again and forgot to pan the channels left and right, they were panned to center by default. So I checked it in Audition and it was bouncing around in the green section. Good advice to check it with professional recordings...Thanks...

Here's the stereo track....


http://www.soundclick.com/player/sin...&q=hi&newref=1

[Yamaha Man]

I just took a look at the old mic cables, one was about 6 foot longer than the other. Maybe that was the problem ...??

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Martin Maniac

I just took a look at the old mic cables, one was about 6 foot longer than the other. Maybe that was the problem ...??

I doubt that. Phase differences don't come from wire length. Electricity flows at nearly the speed of light, so 6 feet makes no difference.

[Yamaha Man]

Found another problem...fixed it..



http://www.soundclick.com/player/sin...&q=hi&newref=1



.

[Yamaha Man]

Here's a vocal test track to test phase. The Phase Meter in Audition shows it to be bouncing around in the green...

http://www.soundclick.com/player/sin...&q=hi&newref=1

[Yamaha Man]

Poking around in Audition CS6, I found the Phase Meter but no Phase Analysis Tool, However there is an Automatic Phase Correction Tool, and a Phase Inverter. I haven't used these tools in the past but will in the future. I didn't find any Phase meter in Sonar...hmmm