Reverb article: Dana Bourgeois on Torrefied Tops

[Backcountry]

Are Torrefied Tops the New Industry Standard? Dana Bourgeois Weighs In

[catfish]

Interesting.
He says that humidification is slowing down the process of ageing of the wood in the guitar.
Overall, torrefaction is quite a delicate process, it's easy to 'overcook' the wood. Even the original patented Finnish process shall be modified when applied to spruce soundboards (first a bit of steam, then nitrogen).

[Rmz76]

Originally Posted by Backcountry

Are Torrefied Tops the New Industry Standard? Dana Bourgeois Weighs In

"And that’s due more to how wood changes over time rather than a case of they don’t make ‘em like they used to?

Correct. Pre-war Martins did not sound the way they do now when they were fresh out of the factory. There are also impeccable handmade acoustic guitars being made today that are of equal or better craftsmanship than some vintage guitars but still can’t get that response."

Perhaps this explains why I was unimpressed with the Martin Authentics that I've had the opportunity to trie. My impression was "if I did have the money to buy one of these I would not". I think these guitars make sense for collectors but not so much players.... If you have that kind of money to spend and you want a great playing guitar, take the eight grand you would pay Martin and buy from a boutique builder or consider one of Martin's mainstream models... In terms of tone and playability, I feel the HD28V is the quintessential production Martin.

[MD1983]

Originally Posted by Rmz76

Perhaps this explains why I was unimpressed with the Martin Authentics that I've had the opportunity to trie. My impression was "if I did have the money to buy one of these I would not". I think these guitars make sense for collectors but not so much players.... If you have that kind of money to spend and you want a great playing guitar, take the eight grand you would pay Martin and buy from a boutique builder or consider one of Martin's mainstream models... In terms of tone and playability, I feel the HD28V is the quintessential production Martin.

The 28 series Authentics have always been around $5k when I was shopping for one, even less for the 18 series authentics. IMO the gap between a preward D-28 and an authentic is about as big as the gap between an authentic and a standard HD-28v, but it depends on your needs and what your ear hears and how and what you play.

[Mr. Jelly]

I like to buy guitars made out of really old wood. :-)

[Tico]

Originally Posted by MD1983

The 28 series Authentics have always been around $5k when I was shopping for one, even less for the 18 series authentics. IMO the gap between a preward D-28 and an authentic is about as big as the gap between an authentic and a standard HD-28v, but it depends on your needs and what your ear hears and how and what you play.

+1

For example, the D-28 Authentic 1937 VTS I bought a few months ago.
Martin list: $8,999
MAP (minimum advertised price): $6,899
Price I, and many others, paid: $5200, or 40% below list.

35 to 40% below list is VERY easy to negotiate on a new Martin.
The second dealer I called agreed to it immediately when he found out I knew about it.
If you don't know to ask for it dealers will be delighted to take MAP from you.

While still pricey, IMO the Authentics are a great value, especially at $5,200 instead of $8,999.

[Orfeas]

Nice article. I have always wondered if the current vintage Martins sounded spectacular when they were brand new.

[Tony Burns]

Dont get it -want to age your guitar rather than aging it naturally by playing it
in and growing with the instrument -whats next a guitar that plays itself and changes it own strings -
sounds crazy ay -thats what i think of torrified tops - and most of them just dont look right to me --

[Orfeas]

Originally Posted by Tony Burns

Dont get it -want to age your guitar rather than aging it naturally by playing it
in and growing with the instrument -whats next a guitar that plays itself and changes it own strings -
sounds crazy ay -thats what i think of torrified tops - and most of them just dont look right to me --

Very good point also.

[FormerFoodie]

Thanks for sharing the article. It was a great read. No one has a 15+ year old torrified guitar. It'll be curious to see how they evolve and age over time. I'm still very interested in torrified tops, but the reality is we just don't have any data on how they truly will hold up over a long time horizon.

The other thing that the article made me realize - just how good are some of the boutique guitars being built today are going to sound 40 years from now. Scary cool thought...

[Pitar]

Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly

I like to buy guitars made out of really old wood. :-)

With no warranty and ready to crack at any time, of course.

I wasn't up on the roasted wood method until this article. Thanks for the link. Until then I thought it to be just more hocus-pocus but now I understand the physical changes wood undergoes, over time, and how that process is impeded by the need to humidify. A generation needs to pass before the wood achieves physical properties ideal for a tone wood. Think I'll just keep plugging in.

[guit3090]

I read this article on reverb today, Personally, I would not want a torriefied top myself, just give me a nice sitka or engelman piece of spruce wood. Let it age itself.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by Tony Burns

Dont get it -want to age your guitar rather than aging it naturally by playing it
in and growing with the instrument -whats next a guitar that plays itself and changes it own strings -
sounds crazy ay -thats what i think of torrified tops - and most of them just dont look right to me --

Tony, I don't know how old you are, but this process has far more attraction for old farts like me, who don't have enough years in 'em to open up a brand new adi-topped guitar.

Not that I'm likely to buy one any time soon ...or at all, but I can see the commercial opportunities to sell to the last of us baby boomers.

Actually, I like the look of them, I still cringe when my M-I-L saw my brand new Collings and remarked on the creamy whiteness of the plastic top (ouch!)

[Silly Moustache]

You can't argue with Dana. Although I don't own any of his guitars (necks don't suit me, I occasionally play with a ....bloke ....who has three and they are all knockouts.

Dana knows his stuff and has a gift for explaining these things to us mere mortals.

Makes me think though ...I keep my flat-tops in cases, ready to roll when the opportunity to go out and play arises. That means that they spend much of their time in a small area (the case, at app 50-55% RH).

Now I'm wondering if I shouldn't let them hang about the house and dry out in varying temps and RH?

They range from 1998 to 2012 and none are baked.

I do have one built for my 50th birthday (1998) that sends it's life in my little office/study listening to the radio and even some music.

It sounds wondrous !

Trouble is I don't have any issues with the tone of any of them.

Could baked versions sound the better? Probably, but gthey are all good makes, and franlythey're all good enough for me.

[00-28]

Originally Posted by Orfeas

Nice article. I have always wondered if the current vintage Martins sounded spectacular when they were brand new.

They did, just like a brand new Martin.

........Mike