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  #1  
Old 10-14-2014, 02:20 PM
johnd johnd is offline
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Default Bass-ics?

Although I'm trying to learn some music theory and the notes on my fretboard, the moment I try and improvise a little bass line even over a simple chord sequence my mind goes blank and I can't think fast enough.

Can anyone give any suggestions on what to try and why? I mean just playing the bass note of the chord works but is rather dull. I am unsure to be trying to bridge the gap to the next chord, or play over each chord in isolation.

For now, sticking entirely to the scale notes is just fine, thanks... just some ideas of how to come up with something that fits when jamming.

Any good sites equivalent to JustinGuitar, focused on bass?
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Old 10-14-2014, 02:30 PM
marioed marioed is offline
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Depending on the type of music, I like to use walking bass lines. Here's a quick primer on the idea, http://a****itti.com/bass_player_10.shtml.
Regards,
Ed
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Old 10-14-2014, 03:19 PM
johnd johnd is offline
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Has your link inadvertently triggered a swear filter?!
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Old 10-14-2014, 03:25 PM
marioed marioed is offline
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Hm, it may have. The missing part is the guys name Adam Nitti, so I'm not sure what would trigger it.
Regards, Ed
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Old 10-14-2014, 03:27 PM
johnd johnd is offline
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Lol, the email for your reply also got starred out. The last 3 letters of Adam and the first of Nitty is enough to worry it!
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Old 10-14-2014, 07:57 PM
posternutbag posternutbag is offline
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Building a walking bass line (4 quarter notes to a measure) is great practice for learning the fretboard. Since I come from a bluegrass background, I tend to start with the root on the 1st and the 5 on the 3rd. The 2nd can be any chord tone and the 4th is a leading tone.

If I had the following progression /G/C/G/D/ I might design a bass line as follows:
/G B D E/C E G A/G B D C/D G A F#/G

Working something like that out is a great way to learn the fretboard and to begin to think about putting pleasing lines together. If you have a melody line, you can even begin to work some simple counterpoint into your lines.
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Old 10-15-2014, 01:15 AM
johnd johnd is offline
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Can you clarify what you mean by "a leading tone"? Do you mean that it is a note which ties together the previous chord (or just the previous note, a 5th in your example) and the next chord?
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Old 10-15-2014, 09:47 AM
posternutbag posternutbag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnd View Post
Can you clarify what you mean by "a leading tone"? Do you mean that it is a note which ties together the previous chord (or just the previous note, a 5th in your example) and the next chord?
I can try. Once you really get into music theory and harmony in particular, you will hear words like dominant, subdominant, mediant. They sound really intimidating and unapproachable, but the basic concept is pretty simple. In a scale, each tone has job and a tendency to pull the listener's ear in one direction or another.

The most basic, obvious and most powerful tone in any scale is the tonic or the root. This tone is extremely strong, the ear wants to settle on it. If you go just one semitone (one half step or one fret) in either direction, this interval is just the opposite. It sounds slightly dissonant or unstable; your ear and the ear of the listener recognizes the slight dissonance as instability, you expect the harmonic and melodic motion to go somewhere else, quickly.

So, if we are in the key of G, one semitone below G is F#. Because the F# is unstable (dissonant) in the key of G, your ear wants to go "somewhere else." In my example, the F# wants to go to the G, so it serves as a leading tone back to G. Since F# is the major 3rd of the D chord, it works nicely over the D chord to lead the listener's ear back to the tonic, the G.

This trick does NOT work well in measure 2 when going from the C chord to the G chord, because F# is not in the C chord. In fact, F# isn't even in the C scale. Using an F# in this case would be extremely dissonant, so to go from C to G, we need a different leading tone on beat 4 of measure 2. I chose A because A is both the 6th tone in the C scale and the 2nd tone in the G scale. The 6th tone has a tendency to move to the 5th tone (G in the C scale). The 2nd tone has a tendency to move back to the 1 or the tonic, so in both cases, the A note conveniently pulls the ear towards the G.

This is, briefly, how leading tones work. They are tones that pull the listener's ear in a particular melodic direction.
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Old 10-16-2014, 04:51 AM
johnd johnd is offline
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Thanks, that makes sense... they bridge from one chord to the next. Probably why I find it tricky as trying to figure out a note that fits both scales/chords in the moment strains my ability to apply music theory

Are there any nuggets of advice about going up/down in pitch you can share? I'm finding that increasing pitch sounds good but dropping back down to a low note can be quite jarring... and I risk getting stuck high up until the sequence/phrase repeats and I can start over.

Another quick query for anyone that wants to answer - is it bad form for the bass not to play the root/tonic on the first beat? I'm learning a little piano where inversions are common... for instance it's neat that playing C (C E G) you just move your little finger one to the right (C E A) and have an Amin inversion. I wondered if doing similar on bass would tend to work? A song I play has a C - Am - G - F sequence and I quite like doing it that way so I play (for simplicity's sake) C E G E / C E A E.
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Old 10-16-2014, 04:17 PM
posternutbag posternutbag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnd View Post
Thanks, that makes sense... they bridge from one chord to the next. Probably why I find it tricky as trying to figure out a note that fits both scales/chords in the moment strains my ability to apply music theory

Are there any nuggets of advice about going up/down in pitch you can share? I'm finding that increasing pitch sounds good but dropping back down to a low note can be quite jarring... and I risk getting stuck high up until the sequence/phrase repeats and I can start over.

Another quick query for anyone that wants to answer - is it bad form for the bass not to play the root/tonic on the first beat? I'm learning a little piano where inversions are common... for instance it's neat that playing C (C E G) you just move your little finger one to the right (C E A) and have an Amin inversion. I wondered if doing similar on bass would tend to work? A song I play has a C - Am - G - F sequence and I quite like doing it that way so I play (for simplicity's sake) C E G E / C E A E.
To answer the second question first (since it is easier), it is not necessarily bad form, but someone needs to outline the harmony. Typically that falls to the bass player, so that the keyboardist and guitarist are free to play those inversions.

I tend to think of it in terms of harmonic and melodic space. The bass player is usually the lowest instrument, and as such is designated with outlining the basic harmony and stating the root of the chord. The keyboard and guitarist are playing in the middle in terms of harmonic space, so they can typically take more harmonic liberties.

However, if you have a crazy good Victor Wooten level bass player who is himself/herself taking liberties with harmonic space (playing counterpoint way up the neck, playing their own inversions, playing harmonics, whatever) then someone else in the band has to outline the harmony, either the keyboard or the guitar.

A good example of this is The Grateful Dead. Much of the time Lesh is playing counterpoint rather than more typical bass lines. This meant Bobby had to outline the chord structures. One of the interesting things about the way that the Dead interacted harmonically is that Lesh was playing counterpoint and Bobby was outlining the chords on rhythm guitar, but he was doing so outside first position, playing inversions way up the neck, and Jerry and the keyboardist were on top of that. It worked for them, but it isn't typical.

The Allman Brothers were another band where the bass player (Barry Oakley) played a more complicated line that was more melodic than rhythmic. I wonder if it is a coincidence that both bands had 2 drummers, 2 guitarists and a keyboard player or 2.

So sure, you can do it, but someone (perhaps a rhythm guitarist or keyboardist) has to provide the harmonic skeleton if you (the bass player) are not. Listen to early Jaco Pastorious for an example of a bass player playing grooves, outlining harmony and playing total outside the changes, all at the same time.

As to the "shape" of your bass line, this is a more complicated question because you are right, it needs to be smooth with no jarring transitions. Harmonic leaps really stand out; you need to keep them to a bare minimum. What often happens and I bet what you are running into is that you keep ascending with your bass line until you run out of fretboard. Then you have to make a large leap back down, and it is obvious and jarring. I try to keep my bass lines swaying, going up and down in a relatively small area of the fretboard. Admittedly, it can sound somewhat repetitious if you keep using the same notes to transition, but to me, as a bass player, boring is better than jarring.
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  #11  
Old 10-17-2014, 04:13 AM
Snowman19 Snowman19 is offline
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Default bass is more than just a guitar with two fewer strings

It has a different tone, scale length, feel and musical role, and in many cases it requires a different conceptual and technical approach.

Guitarists who are new to playing bass will often double the guitar part one octave lower. There is certainly a place for lockstep octave doubling—just listen to Aerosmith’s “Sweet Emotion,” Led Zeppelin’s “The Ocean” and Pantera’s “I’m Broken.”
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Old 11-01-2014, 10:23 AM
EoE EoE is offline
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Look for notes that are common to all the cords you are playing stay on that note till you figure out where to go . you can call it a pedal tone ...... playing the 5th is always safe you should also try and add some thirds.. yes the root should be played on the bass drum hit and the thirds and 5ths on the snare drum hit in most music styles., in jazz you keep the beat and the root should be played on the cord change. but if your talking about soloing I solo like any other instrument but the root is being played by my keyboardist who can also play bass so he will either pick up the bass if I was playing slap so he has to copy me or outline the cord on the keys. ..in afro/Cuban I can advise a book. afro-cuban grooves for bass and drums by Lincoln Goines and Robby Ameen
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Last edited by EoE; 11-01-2014 at 10:35 AM.
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