Aaron Hernandez had "severe CTE"

[buddyhu]

Originally Posted by MrDB

I always wonder about NFL players seemingly placing all the blame for CTE on the league. They chose to play, they weren't forced into it. They also have a players association that could help provide research on player safety/helmet design. IIRC there is a helmet out there that is safer but none of the players will wear it because it's larger and they think it makes them look like dorks.

Just like the rest of society the NFL is blamed because they have the deepest pockets.

I think you are being a bit more cynical than is warranted.

I don't think it is really about blame, let alone "all the blame". It is an issue of who will accept financial responsibility for a work related illness that was not recognized until many years later. There are only three options: the NFL pays for care, the government pays for care, or the individuals pay for care. It is a longstanding precedent for employers (and their insurers) to pay for work related illnesses, whether they stem from accidents, accumulated wear and tear (from repetitive stress injuries like carpal tunnel syndrome, or a variety of mental health conditions that are linked to identifiable work stress), or exposure to work elements (chemicals, asbestos, coal dust) that were thought to be minimally damaging or benign, but were later discovered to be more damaging than thought.

These have been the standards for many decades, and is unlikely to change any time soon.

[RP]

Originally Posted by Don Lampson

Don't you think comparing guitar playing to full contact football is a pretty farfetched stretch?

Don

I think that was the point of Bob's comparison. Even something as relatively benign (at least compared to professional football) as playing the guitar has potential physical risk. The question remains what degree of risk vs intervention (government or governing body) is tolerable and doable. It's an interesting paradox that as cars, football gear and other aspects of life have become more safety conscious, our society in general seems more intent in disavowing personal responsibility and finding someone else to blame and sue....

[Tone Gopher]

Ever pause to consider the fundamental characteristics that define a person? What would you be without your brain?

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

Frankly,many sports and performing arts are paths that everyone knows lead to strong potential of crippling injuries. Have you ever seen the feet of a ballerina after fifteen years? When I played football, broken bones and concussions were considered signs of involvement. A guy on my team was absolutely decked by a hit. When they peeled him off the field he told the coach, "Coach, I'm hearing coat hangers!" Everyone laughed. (Metal coat hangers jangled together in the closet, for you young 'uns.) I can't tell you the number of times I saw stars and visual flashes during hits. Everyone knew we were talking about concussions and not everyone came back from concussions. Soccer causes head, neck, and knee injuries. Hockey? Oh my.

Guitar? Have you seen the early Clapton Crossroads concerts? There wasn't a guitarist in the lot over 70 who didn't have misshapen shoulders with the strap side low. How many of us are starting to see rotator cuff trauma from hugging a dread? How many are finding they can no longer hold up a Les Paul or schlep a Marshall amp because of back injury? Repeated stress injuries? And hearing damage from guitar amps, P.A.s, and monitors? Want to be told that guitar is no longer OSHA acceptable?

Bob

[Dirk Hofman]

Originally Posted by Don Lampson

Don't you think comparing guitar playing to full contact football is a pretty farfetched stretch?

Don

I certainly did. Shoulder versus brain. Not sure what to glean from that comparison. I guess the point was that we do things which have unforeseeable consequences. Granted. Not sure that's moving the discussion forward.

I guess maybe the comparison serves to illuminate how serious brain injury is compared to all the other relatively minor unforeseeable consequences we face. That said, when I was young and playing we didn't have a clue about all this. Now we do. The more data we get the more reaction from society changes. That's a good thing. This will further illuminate things.

Regarding my earlier comments on duration of play likely being a major factor in severity of complications, turns out that might have been wildly off-base. Seems there is plenty of info out there that relatively short times playing football (less than 5 years) have impact. One article of many I found.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/19/s...l?mcubz=0&_r=0

I stand wholly corrected, it would seem.

[aknow]

Originally Posted by valleyguy

I'm reading that kids are not signing up to play football as they did in the past. I'm sure parents are going to think twice about letting their kid play football, instead, go to baseball, basketball, soccer, hockey. I think in time football will be come a dying sport as fewer sign up for it and follow through into college and pros. Only the disadvantaged who see it as a way into money will pursue it. That won't provide enough quality players to make the game fun to watch.

I can't see what changes they can make to solve this.

What is great about a game that destroys your brain?

[RP]

Originally Posted by aknow

What is great about a game that destroys your brain?

You'd probably have to ask a professional boxer or MMA fighter to get an accurate answer. It's interesting that the connection between playing football and CTE seems to be a revelation, but the connection between boxing and brain damage has been a foregone conclusion for decades and even has its own name (dementia pugilistica)...

[buddyhu]

Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman

Seems there is plenty of info out there that relatively short times playing football (less than 5 years) have impact. One article of many I found.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/19/s...l?mcubz=0&_r=0

I stand wholly corrected, it would seem.

To elaborate this point via anecdote: my Dad played football in high school...all 4 years...but did not play after that. He developed dementia in his late 70's. They did a couple of brain scans as he deteriorated (after seemingly sudden declines) to see if he had had a stroke. I remember vividly that they said that there was "no evidence of a recent stroke, but there are indications if lots and lots of small strokes in the past, and lots and lots of brain atrophy". But he has absolutely NO risk factors for stroke. I sometimes wonder if he had some very mild form of CTE. No way to know, of course. But I still wonder from time to time.

[Dirk Hofman]

Originally Posted by aknow

What is great about a game that destroys your brain?

Did you play? The game is tremendous. It teaches teamwork in a way no other sport I've played does. You have to trust the person next to you, you have to sacrifice yourself (pain, extreme effort) for your teammates, you're deeply challenged in direct physical confrontation with other men/boys, and it breeds physical toughness. It requires speed, strength, and force of will in amounts not paralleled in other games, even Rugby and Aussie Rules. "Football Shape" is the best shape you'll be in your life. It teaches courage and humility like no other game I've played. It's extremely mentally challenging with 100 page playbook and 5 options off each play. You have to change plans in real-time in a way no other game requires. It's fun.

It breaks my heart that it's so destructive in ways we didn't know before. It's a great game.

[Dirk Hofman]

Originally Posted by buddyhu

To elaborate this point via anecdote: my Dad played football in high school...all 4 years...but did not play after that. He developed dementia in his late 70's. They did a couple of brain scans as he deteriorated (after seemingly sudden declines) to see if he had had a stroke. I remember vividly that they said that there was "no evidence of a recent stroke, but there are indications if lots and lots of small strokes in the past, and lots and lots of brain atrophy". But he has absolutely NO risk factors for stroke. I sometimes wonder if he had some very mild form of CTE. No way to know, of course. But I still wonder from time to time.

Sorry to hear it. My mom died of dementia from many small strokes–she had no traditionally understood risk factors either, but the reality is that anyone eating a western diet is at elevated risk for stroke. Could be that simple. Could have been CTE.

I could have it. Might explain a lot.

[Neil K Walk]

Originally Posted by aknow

You haven't seen CTE in 27 y/o's because you don't look for it. People who play football receive head injuries. We can see them earlier and in greater detail because the technology is amazing and advanced. Unfortunately, the treatments aren't. I have no respect for the nfl, can't believe anyone over the age of 10 does.

If only...unfortunately, in order to detect CTE you have to perform an autopsy. You cannot detect it in a living person. By the time you detect it, it's already too late for that person.

The reason they are being detected is because the people themselves or their families have donated their bodies to be examined in greater detail in order to increase awareness and bring about change.

[Nyghthawk]

The guitar playing vs football is ludicrous. What employer paid you to play guitar? Led you to believe it was benign and covered up the risks? In short, no one! Therefore it is not a valid comparison but a red herring. This is not even apples vs oranges. Apples vs bricks would be more like it.

Others have distracted the topic with ad hominem attacks or the specter of government control. None of which are relevant to the question at hand.

CTE whether from boxing, football, hockey or any other contact sport is deadly. What is the NFL going to do about it?

I quit watching the game several years ago for that reason.

[Gmountain]

Originally Posted by TBman

I don't know of anyone that believes that, but that's between OJ and his maker now. He'll have to deal with it.
.

I do. So does my wife.

As far as football. there are lots of risky sports. But that doesn't turn a person into a lifelong thug like Aaron Hernandez. It's a legal shakedown just looking for some money. I hate it when lawyers do that. To my mind, that's just sleazy.

[AX17609]

I maintain that CTE is not primarily an NFL problem. What keeps the sport alive is the bizarre popularity of college football. Over 23,000 full scholarships are given out every year to college football players (http://www.active.com/football/artic...l-scholarships). As long as those scholarships exist, the sport will continue to exist.

[Neil K Walk]

I agree. While the NFL's role in bringing concussions to the forefront has been controversial, I find it hard to believe that the NCAA or the NHL haven't been implicated as well. There is merit in the belief that perhaps CTE begins before a person enters the professional level of athletics. I'd be curious to hear if there are cases of CTE-like symptoms from people of different sectors of society - beyond the criminal portion of society, that is.

[Nyghthawk]

Originally Posted by AX17609

I maintain that CTE is not primarily an NFL problem. What keeps the sport alive is the bizarre popularity of college football. Over 23,000 full scholarships are given out every year to college football players (http://www.active.com/football/artic...l-scholarships). As long as those scholarships exist, the sport will continue to exist.

College football is a cash cow for the universities. In 2014 University of Texas reaped $121 million. You bet they are giving out scholarships! A pittance compared to the profit generated by sacrificing young men's lives. Modern version of the Roman coliseum. Just takes longer for the victim to perish.