Frustrated

Skip Ellis · #1 09-15-2017, 09:13 AM

Why? Because I can't find a demo anywhere of a guitarist micing the guitar through an acoustic amp or tower (Fishman, particularly). I'm really interested in using one of these but I don't have a pickup in my guitar and refuse to use one as I HATE the sound of acoustic guitar pickups. I know the Fishman 2 ch combo amp has phantom power and the 330 tower does as well so why doesn't anyone demo these products with a condenser mic? And yes, I know feedback can be an issue, but I also know that it can be controlled and at the lower volumes that I'll be playing. it can be controlled merely with speaker placement - not really and issue TO ME. I just hate to order something and have to send it back without hearing, at least, a crummy YT vid of someone strumming their brains out (I'm sure fingerstyle wouldn't even be an option!) through one of these systems WITH A MICROPHONE. I guess most people out there just prefer to lower their standards and go with turning fine acoustic guitars into electric guitars. I guess I shouldn't be upset, but it's irritating that some of us who don't want to butcher our guitars or have cords hanging out of the sound hole should be left out of the equation. I know that a lot of classical players use mics and amps in concert - why shouldn't the rest of us be able to do the same thing?

Christopher Cozad · #2 09-15-2017, 09:59 AM

Skip, sorry I can't offer a video, but I did have an SA 220 for awhile and successfully used a condenser mic to amplify my guitars (Disclaimer: I *also* had pickups in (butchered) guitars and played them through the Fishman - ;~}). If I remember correctly, the Fishman notch filter ("Anti-feedback" dial?) was usually sufficient to control any howl so long as I kept everything at a reasonable volume and the room was feedback-forgiving. (Oh yeah, and I had to be a bit delicate with the Reverb - that could set it off - but it will set off any system if you add too much, right?)

I have a Bose L1 now that I use with a condenser mic for guitar (as well as a guitar with a pickup), and it works marvelously (it is much more forgiving of feedback than was my older Fishman, but you can still pull it off if you try hard enough).

Years ago I gigged profusely with a mixer, amp rack, and Bose 802's using a condenser mic for my guitars (and, yes, I would also use a guitar that had a pickup in it). But feedback was rarely an issue with that "conventional" system. I loved the sound (as did the audiences) and would still use that system if I could get someone else to lug all the equipment around.

Of course it's your call, but I wouldn't hesitate to get one and put it through it's paces. I know you are already perfectly aware of the feedback do's and don'ts, and I would be surprised if an SA 330 did not perform for you.

gfa · #3 09-15-2017, 01:05 PM

I hear you, Skip. I much prefer the sound of a mic'd guitar, rather than a pup. I don't put much weight on audio acquired via the internet. No matter the source, it's only a rough approximation. More broadly, it is frustrating to have to buy equipment without being able to demo.

Vancebo · #4 09-15-2017, 01:45 PM

A condenser mic worked great in front of my Bose L1. I am sure it would work in front of whatever you want as long as you consider speaker positioning, keeping volume on the lower side and using good eq to "ring out" or control feedback.

I used a large diaphragm condenser mic with my Bose L1 for an open mic format. One guy singing and one guitar on one mic. I also ran it using two mics. I learned to control feedback. We would have an audience of 50ish in a a quiet room that could seat 100 easy.

slimey · #5 09-18-2017, 08:14 AM

I have one of these that I use for smaller gigs, super system
https://youtu.be/SSTNMHQAli8

Skip Ellis · #6 09-18-2017, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slimey

I have one of these that I use for smaller gigs, super system
https://youtu.be/SSTNMHQAli8

I LIKE IT!!!!

Doug Young · #7 09-18-2017, 02:43 PM

Micing acoustic guitar is a challenge with an amp, very hard to get enough gain before feedback, especially with the amp behind you. I've used the Bose L1 with a mic, seems fine if you're not trying to get much volume. In general, with a mic, you need the speakers out in front (like a PA), and to have a full range system that's fairly flat, to avoid fighting feedback, even at very low levels. You could put an L1, or SoloAmp out in front like a PA, but that kind of defeats the claimed benefits of those systems. If you really can't stand a pickup and need to use a mic (and I agree, it will sound best, as long as you're playing places where it can work), then you'll have the best luck with a PA. A pair of QSC K10s and a small mixer will work great - I do this all the time.

lweb10 · #8 10-04-2017, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slimey

I have one of these that I use for smaller gigs, super system
https://youtu.be/SSTNMHQAli8

Agreed! I’ve had good luck when using it at small gigs with very quiet audiences and at a larger venue with a great sound system and a skilled sound tech. On other gigs with a small band I use a guitar with a pickup - I don’t want to waste the other musician’s time with my feedback frustration and I’m probably the only one there who would notice the difference in sound.

rmsstrider · #9 10-05-2017, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slimey

I have one of these that I use for smaller gigs, super system
https://youtu.be/SSTNMHQAli8

I have one of these, works great. I sometimes use in conjunction with an internal pickup.

gfsark · #10 10-05-2017, 07:57 AM

I use a small diaphragm condenser then into Bose T1 pre then into Bose L1-S. Feedback not really an issue as long as you're off to the side. Can easily play to several hundred people outside or inside and the sound is so pure. Get complimented on tone all the time. And the audience hears what I hear, and its pretty darn good.

ceciltguitar · #11 05-15-2018, 07:23 PM

ToneDexter

gfirob · #12 05-15-2018, 08:27 PM

+1 Tonedexter. All your sorrows will pass...

Stringmaster · #13 05-16-2018, 07:41 AM

What would be any potential advantages of a Bose type system or acoustic amp be vs a small PA if using condenser mic’s? Especially given that many current PA systems are quite portable. Like the OP I’m considering a mic only setup as I don’t want to install pickups in my vintage guitars.

GHS · #14 05-16-2018, 02:01 PM

I agree that I like a mic'ed sound best but to be practical and have less trouble I went with a L R Baggs Lyric in two of my guitars. Only problem I have with this, and with Fishmans as well is the E and B strings come in too hot. I cant be the only one with this problem and you would think the engineers would be working on a solution for it. I can control it okay going thru a mixer ( which I guess I should anyway), so not too much of a problem. It also allows freedom of movement with the pickup and very little trouble with feedback. I would try one, it may save you lots of problems.

BluesKing777 · #15 05-16-2018, 04:20 PM

If you are playing solo, you can use any mic you like if you use in-ear monitors or headphones and turn any foldback speaker(s) off.
Practicing at home like this, my Neumann KM185 condenser is a great sounding mic but picks up everything. (breathing, shirt noises, chair noises, people!). I can’t imagine being a mouse for a whole gig.... Which is probably why people use Shure 57/58 live!

BluesKing777.