#1
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Any love for the Loar arch tops
Hello to all. I am a bit partial to arch top guitars. Not because I’m any sort of arch top player, but because my Father’s played a Gibson ES 125 from ‘51 until he died in ‘69. He bought it new in ‘51. He did not play jazz. He was a country guy, in the vein of Mother Maybelle, Little Jimmy Dickens, Charlie Pride, Jim Reeves… that sort of stuff. I have that ES 125. It was a gift from my stepmother some years after he died. I never really learned to play guitar as a kid. I just had it. It lived in its case mostly. I did buy another guitar as a twenty something kid. Tried to teach myself. Learned a little about guitars and guitar maintenance. I discovered the old guitar had many issues. But I didn’t have the heart to change anything. I finally decided to do what needed to be done to make it enjoyable to play again in the last few years. I kinda dig it. It still has its tell tale age problems… my stepmom did not store it well when she had it. But the action is useable and the old P90 sounds very good. Acoustically, I guess it sounds like an old laminated arch top.
Now to my question: I play it more acoustically than plugged in. I am considering getting a Loar LH600 or LH 700 eventually, but I don’t see a lot of commentary on these. Sweetwater now carries them, so I feel a bit more confident about a possible purchase of one. Any advice is appreciated. Truly. Just not sure if I just need to keep playing my old ES acoustically or get a new Loar. |
#2
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It's wonderful when an instrument can get passed down from generation to generation within a family, creating a living legacy - a number of years ago I did some work for our church with a nonagenarian WW II vet, who owned an uber-rare early-1958 Les Paul goldtop/darkback with PAF's (worth $150K+ today) that went to his grandkids when he passed just short of his 100th birthday - and I'll share my thoughts in that vein:
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"Mistaking silence for weakness and contempt for fear is the final, fatal error of a fool" - Sicilian proverb (paraphrased) |
#3
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If I may add my humble experience to the ever-wise words of Steve -
I owned an LH-700, which I bought used to replace a Godin Fifth Avenue. Any issues it may have had had been corrected by the original owner. Neck angle was good, the frets had been dressed, and so on. I really liked that guitar. The neck is huge, with a pronounced V, but even with my small hands I got along fine with it and actually preferred it to the flatter neck of the Godin. But you should try one before you buy if you can, it is probably very different than anything you are used to. I only sold it because I came upon a 1950 Epi Devon, needed to finance it, and I don’t “need” two acoustic arch tops at home. The Devon was exactly what I was looking for, sound-wise. It has that big band comping sound in spades. The Loar would have been better, I think, if I were capable of doing solo chord melody stuff. If I had kept it, I probably would have installed a CC pickup in it and turned it into a sort of ES-150, which would have been a shame. The Devon, incidentally, has a wonderful neck, which I like more than any other neck I’ve played. Substantial, but not huge; I suppose it is a C profile, it fits my hand perfectly and I suffer no fatigue, regardless how long I play. If I ever order a custom build, I want this profile on it. So try to play an acoustic Loar if you can to check the neck profile (the electrics have a different profile). If you can’t try the specific instrument you buy, make sure you have a good return policy. If the neck angle is wrong, forget about it, you won’t be able to do anything about it economically. Steven
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2007 Martin OM-21 1950 Epiphone Devon 2019 SilverAngel mandolin (“Swazi” - it’s a long story) Eastman MDA-315 2021 Karsten Schnoor Custom B&D Style 5 tenor banjo 2019 Schnoor Weymann (orphaned pot) conversion 1958 Gibson ES-125T 1967 Emmons GS-10 1976 Fender Telecaster (“Ohmygodthisweighsaton”) Lots and lots of other stuff |
#4
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I think that I'd be inclined to put the $1000 for a new Loar from Sweetwater into getting your Gibson sorted by a good luthier.
And ask Steve DeRosa (above ^^^^) what set-up he would recommend for it if you are going to play it mainly acoustically for Carter style country/bluegrass stuff. I played a fairly new (2023) Loar 600 a month or so back. It felt and looked like any other AXL brand (recording king etc) instrument. And the one I tried had major neck geometry issues.
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I'm learning to flatpick and fingerpick guitar to accompany songs. I've played and studied traditional noter/drone mountain dulcimer for many years. And I used to play dobro in a bluegrass band. |
#5
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Thanks for all the great advice, guys!
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#6
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I think it's really, really important to play a guitar before buying it, especially with brands that do not have a reputation for a very high degree of consistency--unless you have access to a remote dealer whose taste, knowlegdeability, and return policy you trust.
As for Loars--I have a 600 I bought off the wall because 1) it spoke to me immediately and 2) was very attractively priced. It's not my first-choice archtop, but I'm spoiled in that department. The Loar has been a perfectly decent summer-workshop guitar: good voice, good playability, and sturdy enough for the challenges of air travel and general dragging-around. With the addition of a custom pickguard and old Sekova single-coil pickup, it's fine for an electified gig, too, at least if the room isn't an RF nightmare. (If it were my only archtop, I'd have a humbucker on it.) BTW, I agree with Steve above--the Gibson is definitely worth getting restored. My late playing partner had a battered '50s ES-135 (missing the bridge pickup) that was his main non-rock electric, and it had a wonderful voice. But a modern archtop is also worth having, and I'm happy to be able to choose which to take out. My '46 Broadway was my first and for quite a while my only archtop, but it was nice to add a modern, replaceable (and affordable) guitar to the collection. |
#7
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Thanks again for all the advice. I’ve had my Gibson looked at before. After a lot of thought, I had a fret job done last year. It was a hard thing to do. Those first five frets were worn so badly, it was very difficult to get a clean tone down in the “Cowboy chord” zone. But, all that fret wear, oddly, had a lot of sentimental value to my mind. I guess I mis spoke a bit when I said “useable”. It’s now actually very playable, and doesn’t seem to show any of the dreaded neck issues. It’s had an easy life, since it came into my hands. I have the bridge saddle set pretty low, with no problems. As I understand it, a higher action produces a more traditional arch top tone character (I may be mistaken on that), but the lower setup works to my satisfaction. I’m not likely to ever be banging out punchy swing rhythms at my level of ability. I do like the traditional aesthetics of the Loar models. But the couple of Eastman that I’ve seen were pretty spectacular. A local shop used to have one or two of their arch top variants in stock. They never had a pure acoustic model. But the ones with pickups played very nicely and sounded interesting acoustically. I agree that my best option is to seek out some arch tops to test drive, for sure. I think Sweetwater has a good return policy but I would not look forward to the process.
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#8
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I'd love to try before I buy, I was able to with my smaller Weber Bitterroot & Gibson L-2 but sometimes it's just not possible. I bought a LH-700 VS from Sweetwater in November looking for a little different archtop sound. Bigger body and with maple back & sides. I think it worked out well. I'm happy with the guitar and the experience buying from Sweetwater (1st time for me). No neck angle issues. From what I've read it seems like that was a bigger problem 10 years ago but maybe it still happens. The "sales engineer" I worked with was very helpful. I didn't ask but maybe he could have confirmed the neck angle if I had. I did get pictures of my guitar before I made up my mind. I did replace the bridge and am thinking about replacing the tuners but over all it sounds good and plays well. Good volume and the distinctive archtop sound for a pretty reasonable price. No regrets.
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#9
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Thank you for that insight oh the LH 700, and Sweetwater, Sir. I have had mostly good experiences with my purchases from there, with one exception. Oddly, it was some aggravating minor issues with a very pricey J200. Nothing that was cause for return, but things that shouldn’t have been neglected or overlooked during their “ 55 point inspection”.
Looking at other archtop possibilities in the same price range, are the Guild Savoy or the D’angelico EXL 1 model B good acoustically? I’m thinking those have floating type pickups. My apologies for the thread slippage here.. |
#10
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I have the electrified version of the LH600, the LH650, which I absolutely love despite a small hump over the neck join on the bass side and a high fret or two. I plan to sort out the remaining issues soon but in the meantime she sounds to me like a steel-string should sound. The immediacy and clear sound of a small guitar with the depth of a 16". More or less what I had hoped to get from my mini-jumbo (which was roughly the same size and shape) but never got. And that subtle "internal reverb" that you hear mentioned in a number of videos of the original L5, well, it's there. Probably more subtle than on an L5, but so much nicer than the cathedral echoing that goes on in those big flattops!
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I'm always not thinking many more things than I'm thinking. I therefore ain't more than I am. Pickle: Gretsch G9240 "Alligator" wood-body resonator wearing nylguts (China, 2018?) Toon: Eastman Cabaret JB (China, 2022) Stanley: The Loar LH-650 (China, 2017) |
#11
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If people don't mind, I wanted to piggyback on this thread and ask what people thought of the Loar LH 600 in comparison to the Eastman AR405e. I'm interested in an acoustic archtop, which makes the Loar the more obvious choice, but is the Eastman electric if unplugged a contender? Will the Loar be much louder than an unplugged Eastman? EDIT: I have a Gretsch G5420T...would the projection unplugged be similar to the unplugged Eastman AR405e or the Loar LH 600?
Last edited by bfm612; 03-06-2024 at 07:28 PM. |
#12
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Quote:
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I'm learning to flatpick and fingerpick guitar to accompany songs. I've played and studied traditional noter/drone mountain dulcimer for many years. And I used to play dobro in a bluegrass band. Last edited by Robin, Wales; 03-07-2024 at 02:05 AM. |
#13
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Back in 2006/7 I had three Loars, The first on an LH600 I think, was playable but unimpressive. I sold it on in months.
The second was an LH700 from Thomanns that arrived in a disgusting shape - covered in greasy fingermarks, and beer stains - it went straight back. A third LH700 from elsewhere was cleaner but so poorly finished, that I returned it. I got an Eastman AR805e. which was great but for some strange reason I ordered the electic version, so I traded it after a while. I now have an Eastman AR805 in sunburst
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Silly Moustache, Just an old Limey acoustic guitarist, Dobrolist, mandolier and singer. I'm here to try to help and advise and I offer one to one lessons/meetings/mentoring via Zoom! |
#14
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Quote:
And the Loar will be quite a bit more robust than the Eastman. If you want volume and projection, a solid wood archtop with parallel bracing is going to be hard to beat...I owned a Loar 600 for a while, and it was very loud...strident almost, if you didn't control it. Eastman makes very nice archtops, but they have a somewhat more modern sound--even the non-cutaway P-90 model 405...Eastman borrowed heavily from the Benedetto book in their designs...They'll have a little less bark--many people might find them more versatile. I prefer the old school sound and just use my hands to control the tone. I got rid of my 600, begrudgingly...I just wasn't playing it, and the problem was the rather hard V shaped neck. If I had wanted it just for use as a rhythm guitar, it would have been great, and I probably should have kept it for those purposes...the problem was, everything sounded good on that guitar-- I wanted to play up the neck, solo pieces, all of that, and the neck just flat out hurt my hand for that type of playing. |
#15
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Also, if that 405e has the controls in the top (or even a set PU) its acoustic tone will suffer.
My LH650 can bark and be strident, but if you learn to coax the velvet out as they said back in the day (I do that by using bare flesh and silk-and-steel strings) it can also have a surprisingly warm and deep sound.
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I'm always not thinking many more things than I'm thinking. I therefore ain't more than I am. Pickle: Gretsch G9240 "Alligator" wood-body resonator wearing nylguts (China, 2018?) Toon: Eastman Cabaret JB (China, 2022) Stanley: The Loar LH-650 (China, 2017) |