Hand built/custom made guitars. What are you buying?

[SantaCruzOMGuy]

Originally Posted by RP

So is that to say that the luthier guitars were already built and available for purchase as opposed to those that had to be ordered and subsequently built???

Yes that is fair to say. I have always bought my luthier built guitars used because I don't like the haircut you take when you have a new-build commissioned. I've also been somewhat surprised that certain guitars from certain Builders did not really sound the way I thought they would so I was glad that I did not have them built for Scratch for me because I could move them on or try them out ahead of time.



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[SantaCruzOMGuy]

The reason you cannot perfect building a guitar in a factory is that every piece of wood is unique... that is the mystique of it... a luthier has to respond to the what the wood is telling him, and that is not bs

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[SantaCruzOMGuy]

The amount of time it takes to get familiar with that piece of wood is not economical in a factory or small shop with small shop pricing. I think sometimes you have the formula very close in a small shop and get lucky with a few that really stand out and we have some of the famous historic Martin's at cetera

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[fishstick_kitty]

Originally Posted by SantaCruzOMGuy

The reason you cannot perfect building a guitar in a factory is that every piece of wood is unique... that is the mystique of it... a luthier has to respond to the what the wood is telling him, and that is not bs

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Yep...judging by your username, I'm gonna guess you like Santa Cruz. Richard Hoover said guitar factories can build 2 guitars exactly to the same dimensions...but they won't sound the same...so there is more tonal variation from one guitar to the next. A luthier can build 2 guitars that can achieve the same (or similar) tone by manipulating the top thickness and braces etc...so you get more tonal consistency.

[rmyAddison]

Originally Posted by Haasome

i think the point is that these. Are not "clones." They might resemble Martins, but they are different. The perceived value comes from that difference.

There is no shortage of good choices in the marketplace and fortunately, you have had great experience buying Martins. Others who purchase guitars with another name on their headstock want something different and don't think their custom builds are "clones."

From reading many of your posts, I know you are open minded about these topics and have a live-let-live perspective. But I wanted to emphasize the fact that there are differences and people are willing to pay more (sometimes less) for the perceived value associated with these instruments. Cloning suggests they are identical.

I don't want to play word games, the builders I mentioned mostly make "Martin pre-war style" guitars, not some wholly new models. Call them clones or copies or whatever, doesn't matter, and they are fine guitars, their starter templates are primarily pre-war Martins, and they cost more than the associated Martin.

You're right, I don't care what anybody plays, it's their money and not my business.

Whether perceived value, uniqueness value, headstock name value, or cheap as heck value, we are all different with different guitar needs and budgets.
My perception going on 55 years of playing is Martin's finest are as good as anything "to me", I have no problem at all with someone else having different perceptions..........

[Rosewood99]

My first custom build is about to begin so I'll let you know in about four months how it compares to other guitars I have owned. I once had a custom Santa Cruz so that will be my benchmark.

[RP]

Originally Posted by SantaCruzOMGuy

Yes that is fair to say. I have always bought my luthier built guitars used because I don't like the haircut you take when you have a new-build commissioned. I've also been somewhat surprised that certain guitars from certain Builders did not really sound the way I thought they would so I was glad that I did not have them built for Scratch for me because I could move them on or try them out ahead of time.

Those reasons make a lot of sense but I wonder if many people shy away from having guitars built because of the unknown factors, especially given the amount of money involved. Although not exactly the same thing, I recently had Ted order a Taylor 714 with Western Sunburst top. Because I'd never seen Taylor's Western Sunburst in person or played a 714, it was a bit of an act of faith. However, because I was quite familiar with Taylor Grand Auditorium guitars and had seen numerous on-line examples of Western Sunburst, I had a good sense of what I would be buying. I'm happy to say that the guitar I received was even more awesome than I'd hoped; but I can see how a custom guitar could disappointment the buyer because it just didn't match his/her exceptions despite being a terrific guitar in its own right....

[nootis]

Originally Posted by RP

Those reasons make a lot of sense but I wonder if many people shy away from having guitars built because of the unknown factors, especially given the amount of money involved. Although not exactly the same thing, I recently had Ted order a Taylor 714 with Western Sunburst top. Because I'd never seen Taylor's Western Sunburst in person or played a 714, it was a bit of an act of faith. However, because I was quite familiar with Taylor Grand Auditorium guitars and had seen numerous on-line examples of Western Sunburst, I had a good sense of what I would be buying. I'm happy to say that the guitar I received was even more awesome than I'd hoped; but I can see how a custom guitar could disappointment the buyer because it just didn't match his/her exceptions despite being a terrific guitar in its own right....

This too makes sense.

Personally, I wouldn't commission a guitar from a builder that I hadn't at least tried the "brand" before. I'm not talking about buying a used guitar you've never tried (which I've done), I'm talking about having one built for you. One of the things luthiers strive for is consistency while capturing a signature tone, and if you've never experienced a guitar of his/hers before, then there's a higher chance for disappointment (even though there are a few builders who's guitars are so cool that you'd perhaps take a chance.... Casimi!).

If there's one in your area, the best way to find out if a builder is right for you is to go out and support a guitar festival!


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[JohnnyD123]

Martin guys talk of the Golden Era of guitar making and perhaps we've lived through decades of years where manufactured guitars did not live up to this previously defined standard of excellence! Just compare buildings made today to those of the Art-Deco era, or the hand-made essence of a 1930s automobile to what was made, say during the 80's. There is just no comparison at all.

What at least half of us on this forum understand is that we are presently in a modern golden era of luthier-y and man if you haven't tried a modern luthier built guitar, whether or not the design is modern or vintage sounding, you are truly missing out. You were most likely not born yet and playing guitar in the 30's or 40's, but if you are playing guitar today, don't just keep playing Martin copies of what they used to build. Please don't continue missing out on what is being crafted today!

People say that we have lost our craftsmen in America and over the last 5 decades in our history this is mostly true. Today we have hundreds of craftsmen (luthiers) making the best guitars ever made, right here, right now.

I've never commissioned a build, nor have I even bought a new guitar. There is so much right here in our classifieds! For $3-4K used you can get the most amazing guitar in whatever style you prefer. The ones that are more money are only more expensive due to long-term reputation. Take somebody like Jimmy Edmonds for example, he can make you a new BRW custom (Martin-like) build for $6K today and it will be a wonderful instrument. He is more reasonable than most and there are so many others (just one example). I cannot afford close to $6K on a build, but somehow I have acquired amazing guitars that make me smile wide each and every time I pick one up! Thanks for reading. JD

[247hoopsfan]

Originally Posted by Puerto Player

Yea, there are probably a few better, but almost every time I go to a place that has all the high line guitars there, every Goodall I pick up and play is instantly a notch of the rest. Every time. I wouldn't hesitate in buying a used one or a new one.

I agree. Goodalls are a great value new, and incredible value used. I have
never played one that was less than stellar.

[mercy]

I would have bought a Goodall a long time ago except for the price.

[247hoopsfan]

Originally Posted by mercy

I would have bought a Goodall a long time ago except for the price.

Pretty great deals can be found used. Here is one:
http://www.boutiqueguitarshop.com/in....html#open1043

I have never dealt with BGS, but he is a sponsor on AGF and seems like a
stand up guy.

[s2y]

Originally Posted by 247hoopsfan

Pretty great deals can be found used. Here is one:
http://www.boutiqueguitarshop.com/in....html#open1043

I have never dealt with BGS, but he is a sponsor on AGF and seems like a
stand up guy.

Some pretty good deals there!!! Mighty tempting.

[TBman]

I'd be afraid of ordering a guitar and end up getting a guitar that I paid $2,500 for and it sounds no better than a $1,200 guitar that I have. This is why I'm asking, what are you buying? Does it cost more because only a few guys in a shop are building it and the cost of running the shop raises the price due to the lower volume sold so therefore the higher price? (economy of scale) On the other hand, are you getting a $3,500 equivalent of a mass produced guitar for $2,500 because the few guys that build it actually spend more time time looking at an individual guitar and can spend more time on the details of each individual guitar?

What makes one guitar sound better than another? Is it the builder or the woods, top thickness, bracing...

What makes a guitar better than another (build wise) - good solid joints glued correctly. The correct neck angle. The attention to the aesthetics, bindings, rosettes.

!!

[fatt-dad]

the word is, "Cache!"

(I am just a sporting amateur; however.)

In guitars, I don't quite get the custom market and remain very happy with my Taylor 914, Martin OM-28A and my '30 L1 Gibson.

In mandolins, I do get the custom, "Bench-made" market. Factory jobs are rarely superior, unless you go to Collins or the rare Gibson, which are quite expensive! I know builders that can do more for less, so I go custom.

f-d