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  #16  
Old 05-22-2017, 03:35 PM
vindibona1 vindibona1 is offline
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Originally Posted by AHill View Post
Does it make any sense for a single guitarist in a band to use this type of tuning without the other (guitarists) also doing it?
Yes. A lot depends on the individual, the guitar and the strings one uses. There are a couple reasons why one might use sweetened tuning...

1) String deflection. Depending on the string and picking style, strings when struck tend to go a bit sharp, the lowest strings changing the most. Hence the idea to flatten the low E 13 cents while the high E gets flattened 3 cents.

2) Compensating for equal temperament. While one doesn't achieve full compensation with this tuning, it does split the difference to the point where the 3rds of chords don't sound much out of tune if any.

3) Increased resultant harmonics. This is an expansion of my second answer. When two notes are closer to being harmonically in tune they result in sympathetic vibrations which makes the sound richer, thicker and often louder. I find that there is a transparency to the sound that is sometimes lacking with standard tuning. Depending on the natural harmonics that the guitar produces, it can, depending on one's ear and expectations, can aid the guitar in balance and projection, other guitars not so much.
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  #17  
Old 05-22-2017, 08:09 PM
Montesdad Montesdad is offline
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Originally Posted by llew View Post
Nope...I tune to the third fret with my headstock tuner. It works well for me?
Same here - only now with my TC Polytune set on strobe and not with my returned Peterson Strobotune.

Most of my play is from the 3rd thru 7th frets anyway - - -
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  #18  
Old 05-22-2017, 09:36 PM
Mr Fingers Mr Fingers is offline
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I've had good luck with an Earvana nut and regular, non-compensated tuning. I used an adjustable version of the Earvana until I got it dialed in for my guitar, then duplicated the Earvana, in that setting, out of bone. I get many comments from those who play this guitar about how in-tune it sounds and plays. It's not a major miracle -- just a nice improvement.
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  #19  
Old 05-22-2017, 10:36 PM
AHill AHill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vindibona1 View Post
Yes. A lot depends on the individual, the guitar and the strings one uses. There are a couple reasons why one might use sweetened tuning...

1) String deflection. Depending on the string and picking style, strings when struck tend to go a bit sharp, the lowest strings changing the most. Hence the idea to flatten the low E 13 cents while the high E gets flattened 3 cents.

2) Compensating for equal temperament. While one doesn't achieve full compensation with this tuning, it does split the difference to the point where the 3rds of chords don't sound much out of tune if any.

3) Increased resultant harmonics. This is an expansion of my second answer. When two notes are closer to being harmonically in tune they result in sympathetic vibrations which makes the sound richer, thicker and often louder. I find that there is a transparency to the sound that is sometimes lacking with standard tuning. Depending on the natural harmonics that the guitar produces, it can, depending on one's ear and expectations, can aid the guitar in balance and projection, other guitars not so much.
Those are all good arguments for why a single player would want to use the method. What I was really after was if only one player used the method in a band and the other guitarists didn't. Do the guitars clash when played together or does the one guitar with the compensated tuning enhance the others. Conventional wisdom would say that unless the one with the JT tuning is the lead guitar, they would clash. But I have no experience to justify my theory.
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  #20  
Old 05-23-2017, 04:53 AM
Johnny Alien Johnny Alien is offline
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I can't say for certain but I would imagine that it would be at least a very minor clash if one guitarist was using it and not another. I actually prefer that all of the string instruments in a band use the same brand of tuner to make sure that there are no issues like that. In the studio we all use the exact same tuner to ensure we are all tuning the same.
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  #21  
Old 05-23-2017, 12:51 PM
tippy5 tippy5 is offline
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Although I do like the tune your guitar to a G approach.
Thanks to another good AGF thread I am now wondering if I should try a compensated nut?

This tech (start at 4:30) constructs compensated nut shelfs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq21e6Pf1T4

This luthier, Greg Willits, likes compensation on both the saddle and nut:

http://www.byersguitars.com/Research/Research.html

One would think that more high end builders would offer, maybe as an option, compensated nuts. I had a Jeffery Yong guitar that had a nice one.
I guess it is all up to how hard you play, what part of the fretboard normally played and mapping your fretboard with a strobe tuner.

With all the string tension on a changing acoustic, fret wear, weather, the room, genres played, and other variables....
I guess it just comes down to guitar music being less a science than one would hope.
Pianos have it made a mallet striking the string setup after a comprehensive tuning by a piano tuner. Talk about lush harmonics.
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  #22  
Old 05-23-2017, 01:43 PM
Finger Stylish Finger Stylish is offline
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Tuning open strings is ok if you never push them down.
But since that's not how I play, I always tune fretted notes.
I tune every string fretted to it's A note except the A string which I tune to E note on the 7th fret.
Works well! Give it a try.
James Taylor plays a super low action. As he says, "It's on the buzzy side of low" so he doesn't have to muscle the strings to get them to sing.
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  #23  
Old 05-23-2017, 02:27 PM
MrErikJ MrErikJ is offline
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I bought the Peterson StroboClip just for the sweetened tuning as I don't particularly want a pedal tuner and my Snarks aren't precise enough for the JT tuning.

Learning the StroboClip was an adventure in itself, but I would say that I perceive a difference in the overall tone of the instrument and an improvement in intonation. Now, when I play with other folks, I just use my Super Snark and play at the exact same pitch as them. However, the JT tuning does make my barre and open chords sound more in-tune throughout the neck. I don't feel "out of tune" without it either, but it does increase consonance throughout the neck. If I play an open-Cmaj7 at the seventh fret, it sounds more consonant than if it wasn't sweetened.
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  #24  
Old 05-23-2017, 02:33 PM
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ljguitar ljguitar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrErikJ View Post
I bought the Peterson StroboClip just for the sweetened tuning as I don't particularly want a pedal tuner and my Snarks aren't precise enough for the JT tuning.
Hi MrEJ

James Taylor's tweaked (sweetening) is only applicable to guitars which are built and the intonation is tweaked like his. And so are Peterson's sweetenings.

I've found I can tune as closely to pitch as possible, and I know which of my guitars (which are all well setup and very close to in-tuneness) need which strings tweaked to match me playing them. One needs the 2nd string tuned spot on but the 3rd slightly (2 cents) sharp. Another needs the 3rd tuned spot on but the 2nd slightly flat (2 cents).

And when I tuned with Peterson's sweetened settings, I still had to tweak the 6th string when I moved to Dropped D. And the sweetenings don't apply to DADGAD or CGCGCD or CGCGBD etc (open or altered tunings). I've discovered that Snark tuners give quite sensitive indications if you pluck strings at a medium volume and pay attention which way the initial deflection 'bumps' (and then you let it settle), and by adjusting the string so the initial setting changes but the root pitch stays the same, you can shade pitches very specifically with one…when a note is plucked/picked there are sub-LED lights which will flutter either flat or sharp when you are nearing the limits of the +_cents it is capable of.

No matter how capable the tuner, the ears are still one of the most important ingredients to tuning and playing in tune.



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Last edited by ljguitar; 05-23-2017 at 02:39 PM. Reason: Added a Snarky comment…oh Snark tuner comment
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  #25  
Old 05-25-2017, 08:14 AM
Desafinado Desafinado is offline
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I tried it using my Intellitouch clip on and couldn't get it right, so got the Petereson iPhone app that has this tuning as an alternate setting. It took me a while but I got it dialed in. Not sure I would say that it sounded better, just good in a different way. I'll stick with it for a while and see if it grows on me.
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  #26  
Old 05-25-2017, 09:07 AM
vindibona1 vindibona1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHill View Post
Those are all good arguments for why a single player would want to use the method. What I was really after was if only one player used the method in a band and the other guitarists didn't. Do the guitars clash when played together or does the one guitar with the compensated tuning enhance the others. Conventional wisdom would say that unless the one with the JT tuning is the lead guitar, they would clash. But I have no experience to justify my theory.
Ok... I can answer your question about that too. I've had occasion to used sweetened tuning on a Friday night gig while everyone else was in standard tuning. No, it did not clash. Remember, at most we're talking 13/100ths of a half step at most on the low E, which will be less distant than that after being struck. FWIW I was using my Taylor 614ce and the result was more or less that it opened up the sound. When I say "opened the sound" it's like the difference between the sound of a major 3rd and a minor 6th playing the same notes, but the different intervals produce a more open sound (a bit of a stretch I know, but I can't think of a better simile).

I find it intriguing, because my Taylor sounds pretty good in either tuning, but "tighter" with standard tuning and feels like it breathes more with JT tuning; both good with that "open transparency" I'd mentioned. My Marin D-35 opens up too, but the overall gestalt of the instrument changes more radically. I can hear many more resultant harmonics, almost taking it aurally in Taylor territory (with Sunbeam 12 strings, btw). It's a little too freaky to hear my Martin sounding like that. I've got a few Friday night gigs coming up in the next month, so I'll have to try messing with the different tunings.
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  #27  
Old 05-25-2017, 12:39 PM
henryp henryp is offline
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Originally Posted by rmsstrider View Post
Just watched a video by James Taylor on how he tunes his guitar.
This?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2xn...7B31793C012820
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  #28  
Old 05-25-2017, 05:18 PM
AHill AHill is offline
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Not exactly the same thing as JT tuning, but somewhat. I saw a video where Tommy Emmanuel is talking about capos. He said that after putting on or moving a capo, he'll push down on his lower strings to relieve some of the additional tension the capo imparts, thus taking out the sharpness the capo imparted. I know you don't have that option when fretting with your hand, but it was an interesting and subtle way to deal with fretted notes becoming sharp.
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  #29  
Old 05-26-2017, 12:11 AM
jaybones jaybones is offline
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I always check the tuning after I capo. Even moving it to a different fret changes things.
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  #30  
Old 05-26-2017, 03:40 AM
AndrewG AndrewG is offline
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Life's too short. An A440 fork and my ears are all the accuracy I need. I don't need a strobe tuner to confirm whether I'm in tune or not, regardless of whether I'm using a capo, and 'sweetening' is something I have always done, by ear. His capo sharpens his strings? Get another capo that doesn't. How on earth did we ever manage before electronic tuners were invented?
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Last edited by AndrewG; 05-26-2017 at 03:51 AM.
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