Best Undersaddle

hotroad · #1 06-26-2016, 12:00 AM

I just took delivery of a very nice Santa Cruz OM with no onboard electronics. I stuck a sound hole pickup in it for tonights gig and did not like the tone at all. At the halfway point I picked up my Breedlove which has same woods as the SCGC but the Element undersaddle pickup and was blown away by the quality of the tone.
Needless to say, I will be removing that soundhole PU from my SCGC but what to replace it with. I have always been impressed by the tone of the Element undersaddle but wonder if there is something better out there now. I hope you can help with ideas. I like the Element as it gives such clear crisp tones to all strings and for flatpicking during my gigs I need that type of tone. I run my signal through a DTar Solstice and Zoom A3 for maximum eq possibilities.

What suggestions do you have? What is the clearest and cleanest undersaddle? After I figure this out, I will go for an installation of my newly acquired DPA 4061 mic per Doug Young's instructions. That will give me the dual source that I want. But first, the undersaddle for clarity and punch when gigging.

Nick84 · #2 06-26-2016, 02:18 AM

Baggs Element and Fishman Mattix Infinity for me.

otavio · #3 06-26-2016, 08:59 AM

Matrix Infinity and you can always use Aura images on it.

SpruceTop · #4 06-26-2016, 10:41 AM

Fishman Matrix Infinity UST/preamp. As mentioned, it works really well with Aura Pedals/Images, and it's a hard pickup so it doesn't affect the acoustic tone of the guitar, especially after installation and settling-in, as much as a Baggs Element UST.

hotroad · #5 06-26-2016, 12:19 PM

Has anyone compared the Fishman Matrix Infinity with the Element? Other than installation and physically where the PU is installed, how about tone with comparable amps, eq, effects and strings. I really like the Element's tone on my SCGC with Western Red Cedar/EIR but I am hearing that the Matrix is awesome. Never tried it.

Ed-in-Ohio · #6 06-26-2016, 12:22 PM

DTar Wavelength, no doubt. Most especially since you are already running your signal through the Solstice.

SpruceTop · #7 06-26-2016, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotroad

Has anyone compared the Fishman Matrix Infinity with the Element? Other than installation and physically where the PU is installed, how about tone with comparable amps, eq, effects and strings. I really like the Element's tone on my SCGC with Western Red Cedar/EIR but I am hearing that the Matrix is awesome. Never tried it.

I've used them both. I tend to prefer the Fishman Matrix as it sounds clearer to me. Both the Element and Matrix sound best when routed through a Fishman Aura Pedal. Other than the UST-based Matrix and Element systems having the best gain-before-feedback for a non-magnetic-based system, I prefer the tone of SBT-based systems over them.

Do you have your heart set on a UST? If not, are you familiar with Trance Audio Amulet systems? These are SBT-based systems and are capable of good gain-before-feedback while sounding acoustically quite natural. You have an expensive Santa Cruz guitar and it deserves an excellent pickup/preamp system. Let me suggest the Trance Amulet M Dual Mono system: http://www.tranceaudio.com/amuletm.html

hotroad · #8 06-26-2016, 02:52 PM

I know about the Trance Amulet from reading so many posts here in favor of it. I will take a look at it again. Thanks.
Yes, the SGCG is expensive but my Charis is twice as much and it too needs a pickup upgrade from the Lyric. I might go for a DPA4061 in that with a undersaddle of some sort for the dual source. I have used dual source and have the outboard equipment for it but prefer not to go that way. I like tweeking but not getting too much going on for gigging as much as I do.

thanks again....going on line now to see the Trance Amulet.

J Patrick · #9 06-26-2016, 03:04 PM

...i had a D-Tar Wavelength in a Santa Cruz 000 and it sounded better than any other UST i've yet to hear....but....if you're looking to get a more *authentic* plugged in sound a soundboard transducer like a Dazzo. K&K or Trace is the way to go....i had an OM PW with a K&K PWM and a Baggs M1A that i mixed through a Raven Labs PMB preamp....a nice way to go if you're playing out a lot as it gives you a full specftrum of options with great audio quality...

dogdog49 · #10 06-26-2016, 08:20 PM

Highlander iP-1! No other undersaddle comes close imho.

hotroad · #11 06-26-2016, 11:21 PM

I will check that one out as well as the Trance Amulet Stereo. Anyone against the stereo version they have other than it being crazy expensive.

TOCS · #12 06-27-2016, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotroad

I will check that one out as well as the Trance Amulet Stereo. Anyone against the stereo version they have other than it being crazy expensive.

I'm saving up for the stereo version. I'm picking it over the mono version for a few reasons:

- No batteries in the guitar
- Batteries are optional, i.e. you choose if you want to power the outboard box with batteries or the supplied AC power supply
- In my case, I only need one cable going out of the guitar as I'm also going to be using a magnetic pickup in combination with it (the internal preamp is stereo and has two channels)

I wish I was anywhere near the US though, because importing this system to Denmark is crazy expensive, heh. Instead of $549 it will be around $749, so it'll take a poor student like me a while to save up.

hotroad · #13 06-27-2016, 02:05 PM

Anyone do an A-B with the LR Baggs Anthem which uses an Element and internal mic versus a Trance Amulet Stereo. Besides the price difference, are there others. Both have mics and are dual source. I guess the Anthem cannot be made to come out as a stereo signal where you can eq the two signals separatey. The signal comes out mono on the Anthem. On the Trance Amulet Stereo, the signal comes out in stereo and can be kept separated with separate eq and effects on each signal, the mic and the soundboard transducer. Sounds like a pain in the *** to install though.

Beagle1 · #14 06-27-2016, 02:22 PM

I agree with the advice about the DTAR Wavelength and Highlander IP-1 being the best add-on UST pickups. They both sound pretty nice. I'm sorry, I'm not a fan of the Fishman UST or the Baggs Element by itself, though the Element is OK as part of their Anthem system.

If it were me, in a nice guitar like a Santa Cruz, I'd look more at some of the SBT solutions that people have proposed like the K&K, Trance, or maybe the Baggs Lyric. That is really going to give you the most natural tone. Unless you really need something that is more feedback proof, in which case I'd recommend the Baggs Anthem SL system. I really like the Anthem for something that both sounds natural and is fairly resistant to feedback.

otavio · #15 06-27-2016, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotroad

Anyone do an A-B with the LR Baggs Anthem which uses an Element and internal mic versus a Trance Amulet Stereo. Besides the price difference, are there others. Both have mics and are dual source. I guess the Anthem cannot be made to come out as a stereo signal where you can eq the two signals separatey. The signal comes out mono on the Anthem. On the Trance Amulet Stereo, the signal comes out in stereo and can be kept separated with separate eq and effects on each signal, the mic and the soundboard transducer. Sounds like a pain in the *** to install though.

The Full Anthem system it´s a "more ready" system.. besides the low output, just a bit of eq and you ready to go.

But... i think that a Anthem v.2 would be aprecciated, with separated outputs in a single trs cable.