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#1
02-02-2015, 03:57 PM
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how to design bracing
I have a question how to design guitar bracing?
I know that bracing prevent top from collapse there are many variations of x bracing; tacoma bracing; i heard about A bracing but if this is not tacoma bracing I don't know what it is. So my question is how to design the bracing for particular top? Maybe there is good source in the net but I didn't found it. I know there is many books how to build or make best sound from guitar but I didn't found book which will explain how to design bracing and what to consider during design.? (some recommend book of Ervin Sumogyi but this one is to expensive for me). Maybe there is software which would help with it? Thank you for help 
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#3
02-02-2015, 05:12 PM
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#4
02-03-2015, 04:36 AM
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Yes I'm still about Carbon Fibre.
I know that some of those CF guitars don't have bracing just different thickness or like Cargo cargo spider bracing with two long braces but I need first gain theoretical knowledge before I do next step (probably fuel different options to test and chose best on the end).
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#6
02-03-2015, 05:49 AM
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#7
02-03-2015, 06:08 AM
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__________________
Bryan 
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#8
02-03-2015, 06:28 AM
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__________________
A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything
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#9
02-03-2015, 06:42 AM
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Definitely in stock at Gore Guitars.
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#10
02-03-2015, 08:04 AM
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I was gonna say go get some plans for many different guitars, something that has been time tested and proven to work, and go from there. Plans are relatively cheap but keep in mind that most of them are over built.
But, if you are doing CF then you may find that you are in your own world and in that case you may want to build a top with no binding for example to make it easier to remove and try again.
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#12
02-03-2015, 01:58 PM
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Best I can say about learning bracing design is to see as many guitars as you can and as many different bracing designs as you can. Look for weaknesses in guitars (warps and cracks) then use your understanding to assess why certain guitars crack and warp, while others don't. Also, assess why certain guitars sound good and others don't. A book will only give you ideas to think about but the only real answers are in your experience of seeing, hearing, and doing.
__________________
---- Ned Milburn NSDCC Master Artisan Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
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#13
02-03-2015, 02:15 PM
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i suggest that in addition to getting that basic book, that you also look at the guitars i mentioned earlier to get an idea of how to deal with carbon fiber as it is done by manufacturers who have done it before and are doing it now.
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#14
02-03-2015, 02:21 PM
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This is a can of worms too (you could go fishing!).
First: if you compare the way an unbraced 'free' top (not glued to the rim) vibrates to one that is 'properly' braced, you'd see that they have many of the same vibration modes. The difference is that the braced top will have those modes at higher frequencies: it's stiffer for the same weight. If you made an unbraced top thicker, so that it was stiff enough to hold up under string tension, it would probably sound OK, but it would not be as loud, since it would need to be heavier. So, from this we can reason that the purpose of bracing is to add stiffness without adding a lot of weight, and that 'good' bracing adds most of that stiffness in ways that don't otherwise interfere with the way the top vibrates. THERE ARE LOTS OF WAYS TO DO THIS. In theory all of them 'work'. In practice, each different bracing scheme has a different timbre. The more the brace pattern departs from 'normal', the more likely it is that the guitar will sound 'too different' to be appealing. In your case, you are starting out in a different place than most guitar makers. We are constrained by the properties of the wood we use. One of the truisms of guitar acoustics research is that bracing only 'fine tunes' the tone, or, as Mark Blanchard puts it: "The tone is in the top". With CF you could make a top membrane that works like wood, and then brace it the way a wood top would be braced. You might, however, be able to get the same result by designing the material in such a way as to eliminate the bracing entirely. Or, of course, you can go somewhere in between. IMO the important data is in how the finished top vibrates before you put it on the guitar. Of course, it all changes once the box is together, and that's the thing that really counts. However, the way the 'free' plate works tells you more about the distribution of mass and stiffness within it than you can learn once it's on the guitar. Gluing the top to the rim constrains it, such that you'll end up with pretty much the same modes unless you mess up royally. You lose any chance of seeing the small differences that really matter. In the end, though, you have the same problem any guitar maker does: you have a sound and you want to wrap a box around it. Find the boxes that make that sort of sound, and see what they have in common. Then figure out how to duplicate that. Function is more important than form: you have possibilities and resources that we glorified carpenters don't have. You'll probably get better results by working with what you have than from trying to duplicate what we've got.
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#15
02-03-2015, 08:32 PM
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Alan and Arie
You just have confermed what i was thinking thank you for it. I still will first buy book and try to.gain more knowledge but probobly i will look for cheaper option then above. As i know allready a bit of carbon fiire i think i know what i could expect. More over i know allready that i can make top from two layers of carbon and it will be enough to hold bridge and string tension but i it would not sound too good... Alan my top will be flat but also will have 5mm radious bended rim around i know that will change how the top sounds but there is another reason for it. (easer to attach to a body and in future guitar will last for longer...) I also have rough idea how i wish to do bracing it will base on tacome system with some support but firs I need to gein more theory.
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