Why is Martin set up so poor?

[mackdaddie]

Bought an 00-15 new in box, setup was slightly high, but slight is the key word there.

Probably played 20-30 Martins in shops before picking the 15, none of them were what I call poor.

[blue]

Originally Posted by Boneyard75

First the disclaimer....I love my Martins, but I think the OP has a good point....Why in the world would Martin not want to sell a guitar that is as close to perfect as possible for the majority of players....
My 2 cents ....Boneyard

I hear you but just like many things in life, it's easy to take away, but it's hard to put back on. It's still the minority, but enough Martin lovers don't want anything remotely close to the taylor 4/64ths standard. I don't have any guitars near that. You'll need a new saddle at the very least to get a guitar with that action where I want it. possibly a nut as well. I do honestly believe it goes back to the days where every Martin that was sold was set up, in the shop it was purchased for each buyer who bought one. As I mentioned that was the expectation when I sold them in the 70's. Haven't heard from any current shop guys if the pins still come high or not. Is it a hassle to setup a new guitar? Yes. Is it an additional expense on an already expensive guitar? Yes. But it is what it is. You can get annoyed, or you can see it as a touch of old timey charm. But as you said, you love your Martins...

And as to your comment about special customers, I have no doubt, that if you're special enough, they have your preferred action on file, and the guitar that gets shipped to you comes just the way you like it. No question you're right in my mind.

[Brent Hutto]

Originally Posted by blue

And as to your comment about special customers, I have no doubt, that if you're special enough, they have your preferred action on file, and the guitar that gets shipped to you comes just the way you like it. No question you're right in my mind.

I've never heard of anyone buying a guitar directly from Martin. I thought you were required to order through a dealer.

[Snippet]

As a songwriter I should know better than using words in haste.
Using the word 'Poor' in the title was an hasty error,sorry.
Another lesson learnt

[rmyAddison]

It's pretty much been said already, and as the owner of over 20 Martins (a core group and revolving "visitors") it's a non-issue to me.

I really think it's the tire kicker non serious buyers who complain. A serious buyer will ask to have the strings changed if needed, and knows a setup is expected with Martins. That's their business model and I don't argue with it, and as long as folks like me who do buy Martins (core customers) don't have a problem then..........there isn't one.

Again experienced players understand these things. A GC tire kicker who plays a Taylor with 11-12's on it then goes over to a Martin dreads with 13's, can't play it then goes on a forum rant about Martins wasn't going to buy the guitar anyway. Yes this is a generalization, but it seems to apply to a lot of post here, a lot of younger Taylor fans seem to love to dump on Martin, almost weekly posts here.

If you're not used to 13's and a medium action yes a Martin will seem tougher to play than a low action lighter gauge Taylor. You can buy the Taylor or if you prefer the Martins tone get a setup, it's that simple.

[Snippet]

Mmmmm,Wish I had been born with that kinda knowledge rmyAddison,sadly I have to acquire it over time.

A naive and un-knowing disposition does not always equal a non serious buyer though,now wheres those tyres,sure I left them around here somewhere

[scooter74]

Originally Posted by rmyAddison

....Again experienced players understand these things. A GC tire kicker who plays a Taylor with 11-12's on it then goes over to a Martin dreads with 13's, can't play it then goes on a forum rant about Martins wasn't going to buy the guitar anyway. Yes this is a generalization, but it seems to apply to a lot of post here, a lot of younger Taylor fans seem to love to dump on Martin, almost weekly posts here.

So let me get this straight, experienced players buy Martins because they understand why Martins are shipped with higher actions but inexperienced GC tire kickers buy Taylors because can't play a dread with 13's on them.

You may be interested to learn that Taylor dreads are shipped with 13's as well, and that no Taylor is shipped with 11's. A stock Taylor dread with 13's is easier to play than a Martin dread with the same 13's which may be why younger players are buying Taylors. Another things that helps to sell their guitars is the use of expensive coated strings which last ten time longer in stores so they're guitars don't sound dead after two weeks like Martins do.

Rich, if you don't already work for Martin I think you should send them a bill for all the shilling you do for them.

Oh, I should point out that my D-18 needed no setup. But I happen to be one of those older experienced players.

[jmcphail]

I'm basically waiting for the "just as good as" type of posts ( and rebuttals ) to make this thread complete. If we all work together we can also discuss used vs. new, and online vs. hands-on, this bus isn't nearly full yet.

Go Team!

[brian a.]

FWIW, my experience with new-fresh-from-the-factory Martins is that they haven't needed a setup, but only a slight adjustment to the truss rod to remove a little of the neck relief. Somewhere between 1/8 to 1/4 turn and they are good to go for me.

So jmcphail, mine are "just as good as" someone else's and used is used more than new, while online is hands-free compared to hands-on, and now this bus is full.

[Glennwillow]

I love my Martins and I also enjoy my Taylors. I also have other manufacturers' guitars. I do not have any ax to grind here. But I do believe that it is true that Taylor does a better job of getting the action dialed in a little closer than Martin does -- for whatever reason. I have also noticed that Martin seems to be doing a better job in recent years than they used to regarding the action on their guitars from the factory.

Either way, Martin's factory action is a non-issue for me, personally, but I can understand why Taylor's factory setup can make for a better first impression for many potential buyers. The Taylor people have been very smart about this from my viewpoint; I see this as good marketing right at the point of sale.

Regards, Glenn

[Placida]

Originally Posted by wilstev

Another things that helps to sell their guitars is the use of expensive coated strings which last ten time longer in stores so they're guitars don't sound dead after two weeks like Martins do.

Martin ships their guitars with the string size and type they recommend for each particular guitar. Determining which strings are best suited for their guitars is something they take pretty seriously, I believe, and they do a pretty good job at getting it right in my experience.

Why on earth would they want to string their guitars up on Elixers or some other coated string, just so they would have longer playability at a store? That's putting quantity over quality in my opinion. Besides, if the guitar has dead strings the store will usually oblige with a new set if you ask.

Dead strings or not, Martin is selling a lot of guitars.

[rmyAddison]

Originally Posted by wilstev

So let me get this straight, experienced players buy Martins because they understand why Martins are shipped with higher actions but inexperienced GC tire kickers buy Taylors because can't play a dread with 13's on them.

MY point, I guess poorly presented, was experienced players will allow for a setup if they fine a guitar they like, they won't walk away, they know the action can be adjusted

You may be interested to learn that Taylor dreads are shipped with 13's as well, and that no Taylor is shipped with 11's. A stock Taylor dread with 13's is easier to play than a Martin dread with the same 13's which may be why younger players are buying Taylors. Another things that helps to sell their guitars is the use of expensive coated strings which last ten time longer in stores so they're guitars don't sound dead after two weeks like Martins do.

No arguement here, I have said a million times that Taylors come with great action. I briefly owned an 814ce in 2005, plated like butter but "to me" sounded anemic versus that Martins I had at the time. I took it as a challenge, bought some tools and worked on my Martins until they "played like Tayors" , who would have thunk.........

Rich, if you don't already work for Martin I think you should send them a bill for all the shilling you do for them.

I would love to get a check from Martin. If you look closer I think you will find I mostly congratulate folks who get Martins, answer questions about Martins or defend some of the attacks. If I really "shill" then I do want to get paid!

Oh, I should point out that my D-18 needed no setup. But I happen to be one of those older experienced players.

Where's the problem, I've had Martins that needed setups and some that didn't. If you're a flatpicker the factory settings may have been perfect. Again my point was expereinced players are aware of setups and take that into consideration when they are auditioning guitars, rather than saying this action is too high and walk away.

Enjoy your D-18, my apologies if my intent wasn't clear or seemed confrontational. More than once I have posted play what you love and allow others to do the same. Take care!