How to learn the fretboard - and what does it mean exactly?

[johnd]

This came up in my other thread and I've seen it said several times "you need to know your fretboard inside out".

Firstly, what exactly do people mean by this? Literally to memorise what every fret is on each string by rote? When you're playing are you thinking "where's C#?" Or do you mean more to it than that... because lots of great guitarists "know" their fretboard but don't know a single scale or even what one is!
Does knowing the fretboard mean knowing it based on the tuning, or some higher level of knowledge that will automatically transfer to any tuning?

Secondly - are there any good techniques to learn the fretboard? Other than just memorising it by rote of course.

Thanks

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by johnd

This came up in my other thread and I've seen it said several times "you need to know your fretboard inside out".

Firstly, what exactly do people mean by this? Literally to memorise what every fret is on each string by rote? When you're playing are you thinking "where's C#?" Or do you mean more to it than that... because lots of great guitarists "know" their fretboard but don't know a single scale or even what one is!
Does knowing the fretboard mean knowing it based on the tuning, or some higher level of knowledge that will automatically transfer to any tuning?

Secondly - are there any good techniques to learn the fretboard? Other than just memorising it by rote of course.

Thanks

Hi john...

It means learn all the notes on the fingerboard.

There is no 'magic' way, and depending on whether you think linear, or across the fingerboard, you need to be able to visualize it and know notes without the guitar in front of you.

Without scales or chord theory, it's not of much use in and of itself as a raw exercise (other than locating barre chords). That's my opinion and experience as a teacher.

As an arranger, I use it all the time to play passages for a keyboardist or sax player on the guitar and feed them the notes at the same time (which I can also scribble on a piece of chart paper).

It's rare when talking to other guitarists that I need it. It's quicker to show them and tell them to remember it. I'm not telling you not to learn it, I'm saying you need to learn it in context with the scales, keys and chord structures we play in or it's not of much use.

[amyFB]

here are the various things I do to learn the locations of all the notes on the fretboard:

> scale practice - say the note names as i play them.
> pick a note, any note: play it everywhere it can be found on the neck.
> arpeggio practice - say the note names as I play them
> scales and arpeggios - practice in all possible positions on the neck and say the note names as they are played.

i alternate saying note names with saying number positions because both languages have value depending on the circumstances.

i have jam tracks for each key, major and minor, and they provide approx 3 minutes of backing rhythm to reduce the drudgery of this kind of practice.

after a zillion years playing 'patterns' and 'boxes' , i'm totally on board with the increased value of getting the musical alphabet internalized.

yours in tune!

[fazool]

To me, it means knowing what every single fret is as a musical note. When I put my finger on any fret of any string I want to know which note that is.

I've played guitar (non-professionally) for three decades. I even took a music theory class in college (even aced the course), but I never had this ability.

So, I've undertaken a deliberate effort to challenge myself and learn this.

As someone just starting to master this, I can speak about what the learning means.

What I am finding is that it opens up (for me) a whole new understanding about keys and scales and everything. For example, I was noodling around with a couple riffs from some favorite songs. I repeated the riffs. Then paused thought for a second and did it again and said "Hey! this song is in the key of G and (more slowly) I could transpose this to C by doing this...."

Things like that.

What I want to get out of this is the ability to visualize chord construction on the fly, as I play. For example, my application of music theory told me, this note I'm pressing must be a third, since flatting it, shifts my chord from major to minor, so I know in this chord shape which is my third note. And I know which is the first note because of the bass line. But I couldn't just look at my fingers and know which was the fifth note or which was another first or third. I would have to count up and down.

For example, I know my open D can suspend the third with a second by opening the E string, dropping it three half steps or that I can suspend the third with a perfect fourth by raising it a half step.

But what the tells me is, because I knew the chords Dsus2 and Dsus4 already, I can tell which note is the third.

But my knowledge stalled there. Sure I could look at all my chords and know where the root note was and I could tell where most of my thirds were. But that was it.

I wanted to know why a chord becomes a seventh or an add9 by looking at it.

So I embarked on a self-challenge to learn all my scales on the fretboard and to learn all the notes of the fretboard.

One thing I will tell you is that there is no magic-decoder. You need to pick a learning method and then go through that with repetition . There is absolutely no trick whatsoever. It is pure memorization and visualization.

I like Doug Marks' Metal Method and highly recommend it. His learning/memorizing trick worked for me.

If I had to grade myself, I would give myself probably an B- grade right now. I've been at it very casually for about six months

[DESERTRAT1]

Although it's certainly a good thing to know every note on the fretboard I've found that for what I do it's enough to know my scales both in blocks and up and down the neck and have managed to muddle through pretty well for over 40 years just memorizing the root notes in all keys and positions. That works for me because even though I don't know the names of every note I play by ear, I know where they are when I need them. Long story short is that, unless you are composing, if you've got the position of the tones internalized the names become irrelevant.

[rick-slo]

1. Know the name of the note at each string and fret.
2. Know all the scale patterns of every scale (and understand the intervals) up and down the fretboard.
3. Know the every chord shape and name at every position, plus inversions, up and down the fretboard.
4. Know chord progressions, possible substitute chords, and how to go from one chord to the next one quickly on the fretboard.
5. Be able to keep the above in mind as you are playing.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by johnd

…When you're playing are you thinking "where's C#?"

Hi john...

No. No more than I think of the letters in words as I speak them. But if you stop me while speaking, I can spell the words I'm saying. I know how the words are spelled.

Also, I'm not a proponent of just memorizing scale patterns up the neck. I find many players can rip through scales up and down the neck, but cannot play a C or A or G or E or D scale in first position (for two octaves), nor can they start on any string and play a full major or minor scale for an octave and a half on only that string.

And I find them weak at playing arpeggios and chord inversions in 3-4 string blocks/groupings/clusters.

Knowing scale and chord theory are as important as knowing note names on the fretboard.

[MikeB1]

[QUOTE=ljguitar;4075695][size=2]Hi john...

“And I find them weak at playing arpeggios and chord inversions in 3-4 string blocks/groupings/clusters."


I would echo the importance of what LJ just said; especially about learning all the chord inversions on the 4 string blocks.

I would recommend the following book if you want to start out to learn chord inversions:

“Mel Bay presents Jazz Guitar, method by Ronnie Lee. Volume 2.”

This will teach you how to play a chord with the root, 3rd, 5th, 7th in the bass, on the low E string.

If you can get through that book, you will have made significant progress.

[johnd]

One query I had about learning the fretboard by rote is that that "hard-wires" the standard tuning EADGBE. Woudl you then learn the thing separately for each tuning, or somehow take on a higher-level knowledge that you can fit to each tuning?

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by johnd

One query I had about learning the fretboard by rote is that that "hard-wires" the standard tuning EADGBE. Woudl you then learn the thing separately for each tuning, or somehow take on a higher-level knowledge that you can fit to each tuning?

Hi johnd...
Standard first then apply it to others (my opinion).

I know versions of knowing 'notes' on several instruments. This is useful when I'm talking to the keyboardist in the band, or the sax/flute player. For guitarists, I'm one of the few who even worry about alternate tunings, so speaking in 'guitar' is based first on standard tuning. That's probably the one you should learn first.

I've played music for over 60 years now, and on a variety of instruments. I can 'think' in keyboard, valved brass instruments, choral music, or guitar. I'm not typical either.

I know a player who DADGAD is his standard, and he should probably learn the fret board while tuned to that. He can play in standard but has to think about it - and he's been playing in DADGAD since he was a kid (he's now about 20). He's rare. Most people play in EADGBE.

I play at least 40% of the time in Dropped D, so I've ported over the appropriate adjustments on the 6th string.

I don't think there is a magic 'higher-level knowledge' which makes the notes fit every tuning (in relation to the fret board).

I think of notes as intervals & scale degree, and then my brain translates the specific notes to the keys I'm playing in.

For me, music is like talking. I don't spell out the words in my head, but if you stop me mid-sentence I can probably spell most of the words I'm speaking.

When I'm playing if you stop me and ask me to spell the note or chord I'm playing, I will be able to with no more thought than I use to spell words.

[mcmurray]

More important than internalizing the note names and knowing where they are is developing a solid link between your ear and the fretboard. Knowing how each note will sound before you play it, and developing the ability to play what you hear in your head, exactly, without mistakes, in any tonality, in both melody and harmony.

IOW - ear training and fretboard study for guitarists should be intrinsically linked and not studied in isolation.

One shortcut to gaining this mastery is to learn movable do (and la minor) solfege and map it to the fretboard.

[CrkrJim]

One shortcut to gaining this mastery is to learn movable do (and la minor) solfege and map it to the fretboard.

Could you explain this in more detail?

Thanks,

Jim

[RedJoker]

It's threads like this that make me realize just how much I have to learn.

[mcmurray]

Originally Posted by CrkrJim

One shortcut to gaining this mastery is to learn movable do (and la minor) solfege and map it to the fretboard.

Could you explain this in more detail?

Thanks,

Jim

I wrote this years ago, it might help get you started: http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/...ng-tonic-solfa

Try singing scales and arpeggios in solfege, if you don't want to sing play them on your guitar, and pay attention to how the note sounds and what the solfege syllable is. Set up the key in your ear first by playing a V I cadence.

For example, play the chords G major, C major a couple of times, this will setup a C major tonality in your ear. Then play C major scale, then arpeggios focusing on the sound and syllable.

Then do the same thing in a different key, G major for example. Pay attention to how the syllables sound pretty much exactly the same as they did in C major.

Feel free to PM me if you need any assistance.