Tops for fingerstyle... Lutz, Sitka....... Cedar?

[TBman]

Really what's up with tops? I've been playing Sitka spruce tops forever. What am I missing from Lutz, other spruces and Cedar?

[Tony Done]

I'm a fingerpicker. I have a cedar-topped Maton, and my impression fom it and other cedar tops I have tried is that it responds well to a light touch and/or light strings, but lacks headroom and can sound boomy in big guitars. The top on my Bourgeois might be Engelmann and it seems to be midway in properties between sitka and cedar - the complexity of spruce and the responsiveness of cedar. The best of both worlds. I've also tried bunya. It looks ugly, but has a somewhat metallic sound that I like very much.

[Alan Carruth]

That depends. There's so much variation in properties within any species, and so much overlap between them, that generalizations on that basis are pretty broad. Each species does tend to cluster around certain specs, and in a factory setting, where they build to averages, you're more likely to find the performance of the guitars correlating with the species than in a hand made, where the worker can adapt. In that case, IMO, spruce is pretty much spruce, and there's not a lot of difference between them if you control for density.

Cedar and redwood are different animals, because they usually have much lower damping than most of the samples of spruce you'll see. The trick here is that it's really hard to say just what that means in terms of sound. In my experience cedar tends to be lower in density on average than most of the spruces, while the redwood I've worked with has al been much more like average Sitka or Red spruce than cedar. This provides a control, of sorts; to the extent that generic 'cedar' and 'redwood' guitars share any tonal properties, it may be because of the similarity in damping. Maybe.

All of this is grist in the maker's mill. Each piece of wood offers possibilities and sets limits, and it's up to the maker to realize the possibilities and approach the limits. If you're looking for a particular sound you're more likely to get it by finding a maker who tends to make that sound already, and telling them what you want, rather than by specifying wood species.

[Tony Done]

^^^^^Yes. I forgot to mention my mahogany-topped kona, a Gibson prototype. It is built so lightly that you wouldn't recognise it compared to typical factory-built mahogany guitars. It reminds me of cedar.

[DenverSteve]

Cedar, Mahogany, Spruce... almost every guitar top can be great at finger-picking.

[ChalkLitIScream]

I'd really love an in depth explanation of the physical properties that allow each type of top to have its own characteristic.
Example how does dampening contribute? Density?

So far, here's what I've gathered
Cedar-Redwood-Engleman-Euro-Sitka--Lutz-Adi
<--more suited for fingerstyle/more suited for flatpicking -->
<--More responsive/More headroom-->

[Tony Done]

Originally Posted by ChalkLitIScream

I'd really love an in depth explanation of the physical properties that allow each type of top to have its own characteristic.
Example how does dampening contribute? Density?

So far, here's what I've gathered
Cedar-Redwood-Engleman-Euro-Sitka--Lutz-Adi
<--more suited for fingerstyle/more suited for flatpicking -->
<--More responsive/More headroom-->

I really like that summary, and it summarises my perception. Not sure where bunya (fairly common in Oz guitars) would fit, somewhere around sitka I guess.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by ChalkLitIScream

I'd really love an in depth explanation of the physical properties that allow each type of top to have its own characteristic.
Example how does dampening contribute? Density?

So far, here's what I've gathered
Cedar-Redwood-Engleman-Euro-Sitka--Lutz-Adi
<--more suited for fingerstyle/more suited for flatpicking -->
<--More responsive/More headroom-->

I was under the impression from reading here that Lutz went the other way, on the other side of Sitka, but I've never played one or really compared videos/soundclips.

[ChalkLitIScream]

Originally Posted by TBman

I was under the impression from reading here that Lutz went the other way, on the other side of Sitka, but I've never played one or really compared videos/soundclips.

It has been described that Lutz combines Adi's headroom and Sitka's responsiveness. It tends to give a more warmer sound, some say. What that means in sorting where Lutz goes, I dont know
That being said, I really do like it for fingerstyle.

Out of curiosity, where would your hardwood tops go? Mahogany, Maple, Koa, Walnut?On the other side of Adi?

[rokdog49]

My grandson and I visited Wildwood Music yesterday. He plays a lot of finger-style with a very light touch. He played several guitars with various wood combo's and fell in love with a Cedar-Rosewood Larrivee for whatever that's worth.
He has a pretty good ear and with his style that Larrivee was the sweetest sounding one.
As an aside, I wish I had his touch...and his finger-style skills

[fazool]

I'm in love with cedar tops. I got lucky and unknowingly picked a cedar topped dread for my first purchase. Back then I only ever played with my fingertips and the cedar was amazing. So I got a lucky combination and have stuck with it.

Cedar is a weaker/softer wood so it vibrates more under lighter forces, so it responds very well to a light finger touch. It also has a richer overtone pallette. This makes it seem less articulate than a maple top or even spruce (IMO) but its a desirable tradeoff if that lushness is the sound you want.

Another trade-offf is that the headroom is not as high, meaning you can overdrive the top sooner than a harder wood like spruce.

[s2y]

There's also redwood. I have an old growth redwood top on one of my guitars. Very pleasant for finger style. The higher density seems to give me some ceiling.

I wouldn't totally skip over Adirondack. My latest dreadnought makes a decent fingerstyle guitar if I use a capo.

[ChuckS]

I’ve got a luthier built guitar with a lutz top. Haven’t played any other guitars with lutz, so it’s a sample of one. I’ve also heard lutz has a very wide range of characteristics (as it’s a hybrid of Sitka and white spruce and the level of the mix varies). That said, mine seems to have more high end frequency complexity/content than sitka, but has the low end warmth of Sitka moving a bit toward the clarity of Adirondack. Mine has a fast high end response (velocity of sound), but that might be more in the build or the specific top chosen?

As far as for fingerstyle, most any top can work. Just figure out the responsiveness and tone you like and find it or have it built.

[dneal]

It's the builder (or what he does with that specific piece of wood), not the wood in general. Internet wisdom would have you believe that Adirondack, for example, is unsuitable for finger style. Michael Millard and others will quickly dispel that myth.

[zombywoof]

Since I play every guitar with my fingers I guess that makes them all "fingerstyle" instruments. Looking at the gang they all have red spruce or sitka tops. Each one, no matter what the top wood is though, has a distinct voice. Not surprising as they run the full gamut of bracings, body woods, body styles, bridges, and headstocks.

Yeah, top wood matters. The only instance where I own two identical guitars other than what the tops are made of are two Schmidt Stellas. One has a birch top and the other a spruce top. I do not care whether you are playing with your fingers or a flatpick the difference between those two instruments is like day and night. But if I sent either of them to Scott Baxendale for an X brace, pin bridge conversion I can almost guarantee that guitar would not come back sounding or responding like it did when I sent it off. Top wood comes into play but no more than a ton of other variables.