K&K Pure Mini + Lyric: Why I went back!

[rschultz]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Here's another sample, as long as I'm messing with it, getting a bit far afield from the raw Lyric and K&K, tho. This is the new setup I've been messing with. So I have my Martin OM with K&K+Lyric, into the SPS-1 end pin module, into a UAD Apollo with a Mac Air and assorted UAD plugins. I'm decoding the 2 pickups as if they were "MS", giving me, at least in theory, a sound that is completely mono compatible and should sound fine to people on either side of a room, and sound nicely stereo to anyone sitting in the middle. I'm using a little EQ and a Lexicon 224 reverb. Here's just a few seconds of noodling, recorded direct out of the rig:

http://www.dougyoungguitar.com/mp3/L...ric_Apollo.mp3

Ahhhhhhh. Maybe it's just me, but I think Doug could make any pickup... in just about any guitar... sound pleasing

Thanks for all the help and guidance.

[Doubleneck]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Oops, one more demo. I knew there was something bothering me about the sound of 1st "strummed" example. It sounded ok, but the K&K and Lyric weren't interacting the way I had heard before. I was using the SPS-1 pickup/mic module, which has a very low impedance on the mic side (K&K side), low enough that it was rolling a lot of low end off the K&K. Here's a demo where I'm using the right SPS-1 module, high impedance on both sides.

I'm just strumming here, and there are 3 passes. Pass 1 is the Lyric alone, pass 2 is the K&K alone, pass 3 is the two summed together equally, all in mono. No EQ at all on this. Probably could benefit from some, but it's close enough. Might be too much low end from the K&K for some people strumming, but easily fixed.

http://www.dougyoungguitar.com/mp3/L..._Strummed2.mp3

I think you address this with your comment about too much low end on K&K. But as I listen I really don't like the sound of the K&K? I can see it filling in the bass in the combo. When I am doing a similar run with the Lyric and my Mag, I truely like both sounds: I go back and forth of which I really prefer? but the mag is definitely bass heavy. They work together in a similar fashion to your combination. Your demonstration on the post before was awesome. Not fair that you have so much good equipment and that you know how to use it. Steve

I am going to try a K&K in my guitar just to see how I like it, I have a back hatch so I can position it very easily for the experiment. Will probably use tape, however. Three pickups should be interesting. I think I have a experimentation desease?

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Doug, thank you for the helpful sound clips! It really does sound like the Lyric offers a nice bit of high end that the K&K seems to lack. I am going to try this set up soon but through two separate jacks. I will either run two separate guitar cables or try to find a Y stereo cable although they are difficult to track down. I am thinking that I would probably rely more on the K&K with just a bit of the Lyric blended in. The 50/50 sounds are awesome but I hear more Lyric than I would like. The Lyric has some qualities that are not exactly perfect for my set up but I think it would work well with the K&K. I think the big thing will be feedback. I am interested to see how it is with feedback. I have a K&K in one guitar and don't have any issues.

The nice thing about having 2 relatively equal pickups (in that you could potentially use either one alone) is that you can chose anything from 100% one to 100% the other, or anything in between. As I dial the mix control between the two, I get a lot of different sounds. So you can use the mix control almost like a tone control. To me the Lyric sounds remarkably like my guitar, while the K&K is a bit muddy and also has a bit of a piezo tone, but it seems to warm up the Lyric and make it sound bigger than the natural Lyric sound, so that's a nice effect.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Doubleneck

They work together in a similar fashion to your combination. Your demonstration on the post before was awesome. ?

Yeah, that was an interesting accident, I didn't really listen to the K&K alone in the first example, but I was puzzling over why I seemed to not be filling in the low bass the way it did the last time I tried it. Didn't look down at my end pin jack to see that I had the wrong preamp, and the pair was sounding nice, so I just charged ahead. Basically with a very low impedance, intended for a mic, the K&K was razor thin. But it added a nice high end shimmer that probably is perfect for strumming sounds. For fingerstyle, I prefer the warmer sound with the K&K adding in some low end, but I'd probably play with EQ a bit more. You could probably also get the more shimmery sound just with EQ, since clearly the K&K can produce it..

[jomaynor]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I'm just strumming here, and there are 3 passes. Pass 1 is the Lyric alone, pass 2 is the K&K alone, pass 3 is the two summed together equally, all in mono. No EQ at all on this. Probably could benefit from some, but it's close enough. Might be too much low end from the K&K for some people strumming, but easily fixed.

http://www.dougyoungguitar.com/mp3/L..._Strummed2.mp3

Thanks, Doug, for this brief and enlightening A/B/A+B clip.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Oops, one more demo. I knew there was something bothering me about the sound of 1st "strummed" example. It sounded ok, but the K&K and Lyric weren't interacting the way I had heard before. I was using the SPS-1 pickup/mic module, which has a very low impedance on the mic side (K&K side), low enough that it was rolling a lot of low end off the K&K. Here's a demo where I'm using the right SPS-1 module, high impedance on both sides.

I'm just strumming here, and there are 3 passes. Pass 1 is the Lyric alone, pass 2 is the K&K alone, pass 3 is the two summed together equally, all in mono. No EQ at all on this. Probably could benefit from some, but it's close enough. Might be too much low end from the K&K for some people strumming, but easily fixed.

http://www.dougyoungguitar.com/mp3/L..._Strummed2.mp3

Thanks for making the extra effort, Doug. While its true that you make all the samples sound good, I have no trouble singling out the pure Lyric sound as what I prefer for direct recording like this. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. Perhaps I'd have a different preference if I was using a Lyric system for live sound.

[Doubleneck]

I come as a amateur to this certainly compared to Doug. And as a flatpicker which maybe has a separate set of needs and maybe ears. But I hear the K&K and I hear the muddiness, it tends to bring. I start with the Lyric which sounds the most like my guitar. When I overlay it with my Magnetic pickup which to me gives me a clarity and transparency with a bass bias. I think it just works better? But again maybe for a flatpicker. It makes me wonder if the K&K is so embedded in people's sound and experience they have a hard time going in a different direction? It so fasinates me that I have to get a K&K just to try it in the mix. Hard for me not to think I am not missing something, and of course listening through a computer has its limitations for sure. And I love the experimentation, a form of entertainment on wintery Ohio days

[Petty1818]

Doubleneck, it's always interesting to hear different opinions on a certain set up. I do a lot of flat picking and strumming and I just can't take a magnetic as part of my sound. I know that these pickups are usually the go to pickup for aggressive strumming but to me they are just too electric sounding. It's probably why I hated the Taylor ES system which sounds very magnetic.

I can however see how some would think that the K&K is muddy sounding, especially when it's up against the Lyric. However, I think in this set up it's a good thing because it adds something to the Lyric which is extremely natural but to me can sound somewhat thin. I don't know if this set up will work for me but I have gone back and forth so many times that I really just want to try it out. As Doug mentioned, you can really blend in so many different tones that I can see it being a difficult process at first but once I get the hang of it I could really like this dual source. I am just not sure if I want to wire them together or go through two different jacks.

[Doubleneck]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Doubleneck, it's always interesting to hear different opinions on a certain set up. I do a lot of flat picking and strumming and I just can't take a magnetic as part of my sound. I know that these pickups are usually the go to pickup for aggressive strumming but to me they are just too electric sounding. It's probably why I hated the Taylor ES system which sounds very magnetic.

I can however see how some would think that the K&K is muddy sounding, especially when it's up against the Lyric. However, I think in this set up it's a good thing because it adds something to the Lyric which is extremely natural but to me can sound somewhat thin. I don't know if this set up will work for me but I have gone back and forth so many times that I really just want to try it out. As Doug mentioned, you can really blend in so many different tones that I can see it being a difficult process at first but once I get the hang of it I could really like this dual source. I am just not sure if I want to wire them together or go through two different jacks.

I assume the K&K can be attached to the Lyric's second channel and out through a stereo jack.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Doubleneck

I assume the K&K can be attached to the Lyric's second channel and out through a stereo jack.

That's how I did it.

[Doubleneck]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

That's how I did it.

I wired the second channel on the Lyric to a 1/8 female jack. Put 1/8 jacks on the Mag. Can put 1/8 jack on a K&K and swop it out pretty easily to experiment.

[rschultz]

Originally Posted by Doubleneck

I wired the second channel on the Lyric to a 1/8 female jack. Put 1/8 jacks on the Mag. Can put 1/8 jack on a K&K and swop it out pretty easily to experiment.

Yup, I did the same thing using a TA4 connector... since my mag uses the TA4. So I can disconnect the K&K and then hook up the mag.

[Doubleneck]

Originally Posted by rschultz

Yup, I did the same thing using a TA4 connector... since my mag uses the TA4. So I can disconnect the K&K and then hook up the mag.

How about this to juice it up. I am doing this to a Doubleneck guitar. Who is to say that a mag may work better on the 12 and the K&K better on the 6. Could have multiple options or like my electric guitar have a switch in the soundhole where I could choose between mag or K&K on each neck? The height of nerdy overkill.

[rschultz]

Originally Posted by Doubleneck

How about this to juice it up. I am doing this to a Doubleneck guitar. Who is to say that a mag may work better on the 12 and the K&K better on the 6. Could have multiple options or like my electric guitar have a switch in the soundhole where I could choose between mag or K&K on each neck? The height of nerdy overkill.

I grok. You and I are on the same wavelength...

[Petty1818]

I am confident that I will be trying the K&K + Lyric out (hopefully installing it in January). However, I am really considering putting the Lyric and K&K through one output jack and installing a mag (with the TA4 connector) or a simple Undersaddle through another jack for when I experience feedback.