Vocal Harmonizers - Page 4

TrinityEB · #46 12-15-2009, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoB/335

I certainly like the ability to change gender. Is the VLD3 the only one with that feature?

Sorry Bob, I missed your question earlier. In the Digitech product line, the Vocalist Live 4 (VL4), VL3D and Vocalist Pro (I believe) have the gender changer. The VL2 is the only one that doesn't.

On the TC-Helicon side, the VoiceLive 2 (I won't call it VL2 as it gets confused with the Digitech VL2) does have gender capabilities, while the Harmony-G and Harmony-G XT do not.

A few other key differences to note when comparing the two brands side by side...

- The Harmony-G and Harmony-G XT have voice doubling IN ADDITION to the two harmony voices they provide. The digitech units (at least the VL2 and VL3D) have doubling as one of the harmony choices within the two harmony voices they provide.

- The "Pre Effects" section on the Digitech VL3D performs pretty much the same functions of the "Tone" switch on the Harmony-G and XT. The VL3D however allows full control of each of the individual elements (tube emulator, compressor, de-esser and noisegate).

- The TC VoiceLive 2 has more features than you can shake a stick at... 4 harmony voices (8 if you use midi), separate doubling, separate effects engine for the vocals vs. guitar, harmony hold, a choir function (which sounds really cool), "steps" which allow you to setup a series of changes within a single patch (this allows you to set up a patch for every song, and use the steps to account for changes within that song). separate footswitches for just about every function, etc. It's in another league compared to the Digitech VL4.

Curiously, the one feature missing on the VoiceLive 2 (that the Digitech VL4 has) is the ability to set the double and harmony footswitchs from latching to momentary. Being able to do that would allow you to hold down on the footswitch when you wanted to add the harmony, then simply release your foot to turn it off. I hope TC addresses this in a future firmware upgrade for the unit.

- Frank.

BoB/335 · #47 12-15-2009, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrinityEB

Sorry Bob, I missed your question earlier. In the Digitech product line, the Vocalist Live 4 (VL4), VL3D and Vocalist Pro (I believe) have the gender changer. The VL2 is the only one that doesn't.

On the TC-Helicon side, the VoiceLive 2 (I won't call it VL2 as it gets confused with the Digitech VL2) does have gender capabilities, while the Harmony-G and Harmony-G XT do not.

A few other key differences to note when comparing the two brands side by side...

- The Harmony-G and Harmony-G XT have voice doubling IN ADDITION to the two harmony voices they provide. The digitech units (at least the VL2 and VL3D) have doubling as one of the harmony choices within the two harmony voices they provide.

- The "Pre Effects" section on the Digitech VL3D performs pretty much the same functions of the "Tone" switch on the Harmony-G and XT. The VL3D however allows full control of each of the individual elements (tube emulator, compressor, de-esser and noisegate).

- The TC VoiceLive 2 has more features than you can shake a stick at... 4 harmony voices (8 if you use midi), separate doubling, separate effects engine for the vocals vs. guitar, harmony hold, a choir function (which sounds really cool), "steps" which allow you to setup a series of changes within a single patch (this allows you to set up a patch for every song, and use the steps to account for changes within that song). separate footswitches for just about every function, etc. It's in another league compared to the Digitech VL4.

Curiously, the one feature missing on the VoiceLive 2 (that the Digitech VL4 has) is the ability to set the double and harmony footswitchs from latching to momentary. Being able to do that would allow you to hold down on the footswitch when you wanted to add the harmony, then simply release your foot to turn it off. I hope TC addresses this in a future firmware upgrade for the unit.

- Frank.

Thanks again Frank. Some of these things are finally clearing up a bit and I figured it out. I want a VoiceLive 2 with the simplicity and price tag of the Harmony G-XT.

buzzardwhiskey · #48 12-15-2009, 04:15 PM

There is a relatively new vocalizer pedal out from Boss called the VE-20 that is part vocal enhancer and part looper.

DavidE · #49 12-15-2009, 04:33 PM

The one thing I wish the VL4 had was a jack for a remote switch to turn harmonies on and off. It takes practice to not hit the other footswitches when turning harmonies on and off.

FLDavid · #50 12-15-2009, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

. . . but I have one for sale that's less than a year old, in new condition, only used at home, and always kept covered when not in use. You can see it here:
http://rochester.craigslist.org/msg/1489793178.html

Too bad it's in-person, cash-only sale
I wish I lived closer to Greece, NY

Aaron Smith · #51 12-15-2009, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoB/335

Just checked out the BigFoot Boogie. There seems to be something in the water in NE Ohio!

Wow... small world! I lived in Cleveland like 15 years ago, I used to see Tim Wallace often. He hosted a great open mic that I used to play often.
He has another hilarious song called "There's No Such Thing As Sacred Chickens".

BoB/335 · #52 12-15-2009, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidE

The one thing I wish the VL4 had was a jack for a remote switch to turn harmonies on and off. It takes practice to not hit the other footswitches when turning harmonies on and off.

Just get shoes like this:

http://www.contemposuits.com/antonio...s-a400172.html

FingerPlucked · #53 12-15-2009, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidE

The one thing I wish the VL4 had was a jack for a remote switch to turn harmonies on and off. It takes practice to not hit the other footswitches when turning harmonies on and off.

I used to have a VL4. The first time I used it at a gig I had the same problem until I took my left shoe off. It's easy to find the right pedal with bare feet.

I later mounted mine on a big pedal board. It was convenient to have everything prewired, but it raised the VL4 to an uncomfortable height. To compensate, I put a short length of 2x4 in front of the harmony pedal. Most of the time my foot would rest on the 2x4. When I needed to activate the harmony pedal (I used it in momentary mode), it was easy to find from the 2x4 -- even with shoes on I could navigate by feel.

Another guitarist used a similar approach and rigged a small metal bar that protruded just to the right of the harmony pedal, again giving him tactile feedback in relation to the most frequently used pedal.

kramster · #54 12-15-2009, 07:14 PM

So left foot for right pedal... got it.

FingerPlucked · #55 12-15-2009, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kramster

So left foot for right pedal... got it.

I never thought of it that way. That might be why every time I tried to bring in Crosby, Stills and Nash, I turned into a woman.

BoB/335 · #56 12-15-2009, 09:45 PM

Wow! Went through a lot of info in 24 hours. This has been very interesting. Thanks ALL!

DavidE · #57 12-15-2009, 10:14 PM

The best advice I can give you is use machine generated harmonies in moderation. i have the harmony level quite a bit lower than my own vocal (I usually sing harmonies and use the VL4 to add a third up). It's subtle and the audience will hear thicker harmonies without realizing there's a third voice with two people. I've seen people use these with the harmony vocals set just as loud as the lead vocal and it just sounds fake no matter what you do. It's too much.

Sometimes less is more.

BoB/335 · #58 12-16-2009, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidE

The best advice I can give you is use machine generated harmonies in moderation. i have the harmony level quite a bit lower than my own vocal (I usually sing harmonies and use the VL4 to add a third up). It's subtle and the audience will hear thicker harmonies without realizing there's a third voice with two people. I've seen people use these with the harmony vocals set just as loud as the lead vocal and it just sounds fake no matter what you do. It's too much.

Sometimes less is more.

I hear ya! (Pun intended)

guitaniac · #59 12-16-2009, 04:24 PM

The lone Digitech harmonizer that I've heard live did sound pretty artificial in the context that I heard it.

On the other hand, when I've had the opportunity to hear others use my HarmonyG live (with the harmony blend knob set a bit above the default setting), the only thing which sounded "fake" is the perfect synchronization between the harmony voices and the lead voices. All voices start and stop in perfect unison, and all voices (with exception of the "bass" voice) move in parallel with the lead voice. Human backup singers just can't manage that precision, presuming they are even trying to. Its often an appealing effect to have the backup voices out of sync (as in singing rounds) with the lead voice.

As I mentioned in a previous post, the HarmonyG's bass voice sounds more independant since it sometimes moves in a direction that's contrary to the lead voice, while the other voicings always move parallel with the lead voice.

If you simply like the sound of occasional harmonies, as I do, the HarmonyG's precision isn't much of a bother. The harmony itself is what I find appealing, and it doesn't matter much to me that the harmonies are too precise to be shrunken humans in the little box.

One interesting use of the HarmonyG is to allow one singer in a duo to produce a vocal pad (sing 1-3-5 triads) while a second singer takes the lead. This is an effective combination of artifical and human harmony.

Gary

RustyAxe · #60 12-16-2009, 06:15 PM

In response to the previous post ... while I had one, we used it for harmonizing the harmony vocals. It then followed whatever my partner was singing, whether that was in lock step with me or otherwise. It had potential, but the sound was, in the end, rather artificial. We never gigged it when we played together, as Jim just wouldn't have it.