Fender or Marshall Tube amps!

[Trillian]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

In the words of the late Jim Croce, it doesn't have to be that way - I have a set of these in my Bugera V22:

http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/Pr...9-Premium-EL84

Pre-glasnost, honest-to-Pravda Cold War Soviet military issue - the Russian equivalent of those JAN tubes the hardcore Fender guys would sell Grandma to the Taliban to get - and in combination with a set of preamp tubes from the same source:

http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/Pr...ies-7025-12AX7

- you'd swear you were listening to a 6L6-powered 40-50 watter (one guy who heard it actually mistook it for the V55 - which does run 6L6's). A set of these and a high-efficiency American-voiced speaker (I've got an Eminence Swamp Thang in mine) should give you those blackface tones you're after, with a heckuva lot more headroom to boot...

Yeps you can change your sound a lot with tube selection - another great way to spend $$$.

Unfortunately for my Guild, my favorite amp right now, it appears no one makes 6GW8 tubes anymore so when I need new ones it's either take my chances with 'used' or NOS.

[maxtheaxe]

I recently went the Line 6 route and bought a DT50 head; really stunning piece of technology. This is a Bogner designed tube head (2x EL34 and 2x 12ax7) that interacts with the modeling such that the amp itself changes its architecture according to the amp being modeled. I won't really go into detail here, as you can read all about them.

I will say that this thing is incredibly versatile. It comes with 4 basic model/settings/channels that can get you pretty much anywhere you need to be, however if you really want to delve into the very deep feature set of this thing, you need the HD500 pedalboard, which takes over control of the amp, provides FX, etc.

Even without the pedal board, this thing gets incredibly chewy and tactile tones that range from classic Fender cleans to Marshall (or Mesa) face-fry to Vox AC30 warmth and sizzle...I haven't found anything this won't do.

This is the 50/25 watt version, which I run through an Avatar Vintage 1x12 cab with a Celestion V30. This setup can be LOUD...50-watt Plexi loud...but there is also a 25/12 watt version, DT25 that would still be enough to play with a band.

Fair warning...the 50 watt version is a full-size head similar to a Marshall design and it is huge and heavy, but man does it ever cover the bases!

[MikeBmusic]

Originally Posted by maxtheaxe

I recently went the Line 6 route and bought a DT50 head; really stunning piece of technology. This is a Bogner designed tube head (2x EL34 and 2x 12ax7) that interacts with the modeling such that the amp itself changes its architecture according to the amp being modeled. I won't really go into detail here, as you can read all about them.

I will say that this thing is incredibly versatile. It comes with 4 basic model/settings/channels that can get you pretty much anywhere you need to be, however if you really want to delve into the very deep feature set of this thing, you need the HD500 pedalboard, which takes over control of the amp, provides FX, etc.

Even without the pedal board, this thing gets incredibly chewy and tactile tones that range from classic Fender cleans to Marshall (or Mesa) face-fry to Vox AC30 warmth and sizzle...I haven't found anything this won't do.

This is the 50/25 watt version, which I run through an Avatar Vintage 1x12 cab with a Celestion V30. This setup can be LOUD...50-watt Plexi loud...but there is also a 25/12 watt version, DT25 that would still be enough to play with a band.

Fair warning...the 50 watt version is a full-size head similar to a Marshall design and it is huge and heavy, but man does it ever cover the bases!

I was surprised to see Steve Howe (with Yes) use two DT25 amps side-by side when I saw yes several years ago. Although he occasionally used some pedals, I suspect the amp(s) were controlled by his offstage tech.

[bitraker]

I play my tele thru a Princeton 65 reissue - luv it - so clear - add pedals to suit but I use few - sonic stomp and a bit of reverb is all u need for classic sound

[maxtheaxe]

Originally Posted by MikeBmusic

I was surprised to see Steve Howe (with Yes) use two DT25 amps side-by side when I saw yes several years ago. Although he occasionally used some pedals, I suspect the amp(s) were controlled by his offstage tech.

It's also possible that Howe simply wasn't using the HD pedalboard; I find myself struggling with bouts of 'option overload' when I use the thing. I'd much rather be playing than geeking out on my gear.

That said, the basic four front-end models that the amps come with are very usable without the board and they all sound very tactile and chewy. As to wattage, I've only had it on the 50 watt setting once, at a gig (and I didn't have to turn it up much to put the drummer in his place)...rest of the time I use it in 25 watt mode and it's still quite loud. I probably would have been fine with the DT25, but I got power-mad.

BTW, one other thing I like is that, with a variety of guitars and pickup types, it doesn't really favor one over the other...single coils and 'buckers all sound as they should and are very detailed. Seems that a lot of other amps with which I've had experience over the years favored either single coils or humbuckers.

[pfflyer55]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

One of these should do the trick:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/V22InfiCombo

Dime the master and it'll play as loud and clean as you want, there's some nice crunch/classic rock/"brown" tones in the OD channel, built-in digi-verb will take you from subtle "air" to Dick Dale, and a tube upgrade (no biasing necessary, BTW) turns it into a total tone monster that'll hang with amps three times the price - a lot going on here for $400, and I love mine...

I am going in to GC sometime this week to exchange my X2 for a Blues Jr. But before I do I'll try the Bugera with my Tele.

Are the cleans as good as Fender's?

[pfflyer55]

Well I have had a few chances to play around with the X2 and am having second thoughts. I like the clean channel, but the 16 pre-sets and the FX's are just not working for me. The spring reverb setting is ok but not enough like the spring reverb in the Blues Jr. I am going to exchange it this week for a Hot Rod Blues Jr. III and give that a whirl. I like the clean channel and will likely get a pedal or 2 later on.

[Paleolith54]

Originally Posted by DESERTRAT1

My opinion FWIW is that the choice of which amp to buy should always be based on the amount and quality of it's clean tone. The old maxim that, "you can add dirt but you can't add clean holds true". While there are an almost limitless number of pedals that can add to, improve and modify distortion there are none that do the opposite.

I hear you, but it really depends on what you play and whether or not you think the dirt from ANY pedal is as good as what you get from your amp. 90% of my electric playing is pretty heavily distorted. Lots of the crunch rhythm stuff I get from pedals, and I am far more interested in how the clean channel takes pedals than I am in how it fares against a Twin. For leads, my opinion is that nothing is as good as the dirty channel on my amp.

So, for what I do, the "clean channel first" advice doesn't work very well. Not saying it isn't right for many styles, but IMO it is not universally good advice.

[Shutterbug]

I recently test-drove an amp in Wilmington, NC; a 7-Sins. It was locally made, apparently. I probably should've bought it; it was $1,400.00 or so and the owner of the shop was talking about a price increase.

It was an incredible sounding amplifier. I wish I could remember the name of the builder, but he builds a relative (to Marshall or Fender) handful of amps a year; all hand-wired, point-to-point. PCB's are nowhere to be found.

For a clean tone, they would get a nod from me before any Fender or Marshall. Unfortunately, I can't really find anything about them on the internet, which I find surprising.

[pfflyer55]

Originally Posted by Paleolith54

I hear you, but it really depends on what you play and whether or not you think the dirt from ANY pedal is as good as what you get from your amp. 90% of my electric playing is pretty heavily distorted. Lots of the crunch rhythm stuff I get from pedals, and I am far more interested in how the clean channel takes pedals than I am in how it fares against a Twin. For leads, my opinion is that nothing is as good as the dirty channel on my amp.

So, for what I do, the "clean channel first" advice doesn't work very well. Not saying it isn't right for many styles, but IMO it is not universally good advice.

I demoed a Jr yesterday and it is way better clean than the Bugera or the X2. I do not like the Dirty channel on either the bugera or X2, so I will stick to clean and clear and tried and true in the Jr. and later on a pedal or 2.

[induction]

Originally Posted by DESERTRAT1

My opinion FWIW is that the choice of which amp to buy should always be based on the amount and quality of it's clean tone. The old maxim that, "you can add dirt but you can't add clean holds true". While there are an almost limitless number of pedals that can add to, improve and modify distortion there are none that do the opposite.

Submitted for your approval.

Originally Posted by Paul Gilbert

Hello! Let’s get straight to my favorite setting for the DETOX EQ: Treble = 4, Bass = 8, Mid = 4, Level = 2! THE IDEA: is to have your amp set to a distorted rock sound, and use the DETOX EQ to give you a foot-switchable CLEAN sound.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by pfflyer55

I demoed a Jr yesterday and it is way better clean than the Bugera or the X2. I do not like the Dirty channel on either the bugera or X2, so I will stick to clean and clear and tried and true in the Jr. and later on a pedal or 2.

Tubes are the weak link in the Bugera; installing the right set in place of the POS $1.29 Chinese bottles it comes with from the factory changes the character entirely. The Russian mil-spec power tubes I'm using have a "big tube"(6L6/6CA7/7027) tonality, and by swapping the right preamp tubes in the right position you can achieve anything from Fender/Ampeg tight-and-clean to "brown" Marshall crunch to Carlos Santana leads (a Mesa SP-AX7 in V2 will do the trick); TMK the Junior has a similar tube complement - I'd go the swap route and skip the stompboxes...

[Paleolith54]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

Tubes are the weak link in the Bugera; installing the right set in place of the POS $1.29 Chinese bottles it comes with from the factory changes the character entirely. The Russian mil-spec power tubes I'm using have a "big tube"(6L6/6CA7/7027) tonality, and by swapping the right preamp tubes in the right position you can achieve anything from Fender/Ampeg tight-and-clean to "brown" Marshall crunch to Carlos Santana leads (a Mesa SP-AX7 in V2 will do the trick); TMK the Junior has a similar tube complement - I'd go the swap route and skip the stompboxes...

OK Steve, my honest impression is that you are more experienced than me in these things, so this is NOT meant to be a sniping comment, I really mean that, but for the sake of discussion I have to say I find it extremely difficult to believe that you can get such radical changes by swapping out pre-amp tubes. I'm not completely without experience in this, and I can say I have never heard the kind of results you're describing. It sounds like you're saying you can take a cheap Bugera, sub a couple of pre-amp tubes, and make it sound like a voltage-starved Marshall or a Boogie Mark-series. Is that actually what you mean to say?

This guy has already convinced himself he doesn't need a decent lead/dirty channel (certainly a valid conclusion, plenty of people like the clean-plus-pedals platform) but you seem to be telling him he doesn't even need stomps if he wants to get something more than a sort of edgy clean, if I'm reading you right, and that's just counter to any experience I've had along those lines.

Help?

[ahorsewithnonam]

[pfflyer55]

I picked it up last night, Great amp. A/B'ed the Jr and X2, No caparison in the clean's Jr. hands down. The Reverb is to die for. So I am taking back the X2 today and will not miss it at all.

When I grow up I will Hot Rod this baby with a different speaker!