Tube Tone With Out Tubes

[moon]

Originally Posted by induction

I do think that the sound of an amp and the way it 'feels' are two different things, and that both digital modeling and solid-state designs usually fail to capture the feel of a good tube amp.

It's not though. Dynamic response is even more important than timbre with regard to the expressiveness of a musical instrument.

Originally Posted by induction

Most solid state amps don't have output transformers. This 'feel' could certainly be engineered into a solid state amp.

Really? Has anybody actually done it or are have we wandered off into perfect sphere in a perfect vacuum territory again?

[moon]

Originally Posted by MBE

I didn't believe it was possible until I took a leap of faith on my Kemper Profiler. If I close my eyes and turn around while playing through a guitar cab, I have no way to tell it from a JCM800, or a Tweed Bassman, or whatever profile I'm using. And when recorded or played back through a PA, I have no way of telling it from a superbly mic'd version of the same. They nailed the "feel" as well as the tone.

Tough for me to admit, given that I love all things tube, but I finally found my personal "no compromises" solution, and it's a lot cheaper than the amp collection that I used to have.

The Kemper is pretty impressive but jt's also quite limiting compared to the real thing. Each amp profile is made at a specific control setting so profiles don't capture all of the non-linear behaviours of an amp circuit. It does do a very good job of capturing a particular setup.

That works fine in situations where you want a quick way to recall a specific setup but it would be a problem if you like to experiment with all the different sounds you can squeeze out of an amp. Specific mic(s), mic positions, and speaker/cab choices are also imprinted into the profile which again would limit the scope for experimentation.

I personally think this is a vital part of the learning process, part of the apprenticeship you need to go through to become a good guitarist. Building your own gear can help too - amps, pickups, etc - although not everyone wants to go that far.

[Steve DeRosa]

+1 what he said...

[induction]

Originally Posted by moon

It's not though. Dynamic response is even more important than timbre with regard to the expressiveness of a musical instrument.

Are you claiming that solid state amps have no capability for dynamics? That's an odd claim. I'm simply saying that some solid state amps can sound indistinguishable to a tube amp to a listener, while the player may be able to feel the difference. With regard to your belief that you can't get tube tone from a solid state amplifier, your response seems to indicate that tone is something only the player can experience. Again, kind of an odd claim.

Really? Has anybody actually done it or are have we wandered off into perfect sphere in a perfect vacuum territory again?

It's not even remotely difficult to put an output transformer in a solid state amp. The reason it isn't common is that output transformers are expensive, and solid state amps don't need them because the transistor output is already low impedance. And, yes, it has been done.

Your obviously low opinion of the abilities of today's electrical engineers is quite surprising given the astonishing technological achievements of the last few decades. Some of the things you seem to think are impossible are not even challenging to DIY-ers, much less professionals.

[moon]

Originally Posted by induction

Are you claiming that solid state amps have no capability for dynamics?

No: you did and you seem to be saying dynamics - ie "feel" - aren't important because because the audience can't hear it.

Look this is usually a very friendly forum where arguments don't seem to happen so I'm going to butt out now.

[induction]

Sorry. No offense intended.

[moon]

I should be the one apologising for getting a bit chippy. I'm actually quite tired after an epic walk yesterday. I pulled a muscle on the way down off a mountain and that's leading a whole chorus of aches and pains from the rest which are merely complaining from over use. I should probably stay off the internet for a bit