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Old 05-13-2015, 07:10 AM
Pualee Pualee is offline
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Default Struggling to find practice time - priorities?

Life is in the way. Life comes first.

That said, I play once a month for a short while in front of a small audience. Preparation for that take priority over practicing. It includes learning and rehearsing the songs. But I really want to get better! Right now I sing, and play rhythm with an occasional intro or lead break (mostly strumming big chords).

I've come to accept I just don't have the time to do everything I want to do. I spend most of my practice time working on theory or fretboard learning.

I really want the ability to improvise well, and lift the licks and riffs off of a recording to play back. Should I focus on a method book, ear training and transcribing, or buy lessons for individual songs (in my chosen style), or just keep working on theory and practicing scales and chords along the neck? I feel stagnant... I get about 30 minutes a day
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Old 05-13-2015, 07:33 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Originally Posted by Pualee View Post
Life is in the way. Life comes first.
See, there's your problem right there... Guitar comes before life, you fool!
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Originally Posted by Pualee View Post
That said, I play once a month for a short while in front of a small audience. Preparation for that take priority over practicing.
So it should.
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Originally Posted by Pualee View Post
But I really want to get better!
Better at what?
Playing the guitar? Why do you play guitar, though? To play music, right?

IOW, I don't see the distinction between "practice" and "rehearsal/preparation" (of songs or tunes for performance). I find that learning tunes - maybe not for imminent performance, but with an idea of performing them some time - gives me all the "practice" I need.
What's the point of technical skills, if not in the service of a piece of music? Why learn (or develop) a skill if you don't know a tune where you might need it? And if you do know such a tune - then learn that tune!

Being self-taught, this has always been my attitude - learning and playing music, not practising - but I was interested to hear (on radio a while back) a couple of professional classical pianists saying much the same thing. They never practice; they just learn and rehearse the next pieces they are going to play, which gives them all the workout and technical exercise they need. (I don't see why it should be any different for musicians at a lower level than that. In fact, for amateurs, there's even less pressure on developing virtuoso skills, and playing for enjoyment should be the whole thing.)

Of course, if you enjoy technical practice for its own sake, that's fine. As long as you're enjoying whatever you're doing, what more would you want?
You might get frustrated at a passage you can't play yet, but you simply work on it until you can. (Personally, there's a limit to how long I can do that. Some pieces are just too difficult to be worth it. No problem. I just choose different pieces. I'm not a pro whose living depends on playing difficult pieces.)
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I've come to accept I just don't have the time to do everything I want to do. I spend most of my practice time working on theory or fretboard learning.
OK. Is that fun?
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I really want the ability to improvise well, and lift the licks and riffs off of a recording to play back.
Then start doing it. Learn stuff by ear. (Forget method books, ear training, etc, that's just distractions.)
Find a track you want to play - or that has licks or riffs you want to learn - and keep at it until you can do it.
No shame in using a slowdowner, IMO, to save time and frustration. I use Transcribe - http://www.seventhstring.com/ - and I find transcription enjoyable in its own right. (In fact, too enjoyable, because some of that time would be better spent playing...)

IMO, stagnation comes from not having projects to inspire you: new songs you want to learn. If you're bored with the music you currently play (and know), find some more. Trace the influences of your favourite artists. (What inspired them should inspire you at least as much.)
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Old 05-13-2015, 07:36 AM
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ljguitar ljguitar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pualee View Post
Life is in the way. Life comes first.

That said, I play once a month for a short while in front of a small audience. Preparation for that take priority over practicing. It includes learning and rehearsing the songs. But I really want to get better! Right now I sing, and play rhythm with an occasional intro or lead break (mostly strumming big chords).

I've come to accept I just don't have the time to do everything I want to do. I spend most of my practice time working on theory or fretboard learning.

I really want the ability to improvise well, and lift the licks and riffs off of a recording to play back. Should I focus on a method book, ear training and transcribing, or buy lessons for individual songs (in my chosen style), or just keep working on theory and practicing scales and chords along the neck? I feel stagnant... I get about 30 minutes a day
Hi Pualee…

For me it's called Playing Music, not Remembering Theory. If you have only 30 minutes a day and a gig a month, theory can come later (my opinion).

I know theory, but when there's a chance to play for others in the mix, the music is what gets my attention (and hopefully the audience's). People who are listening don't care about theory (unless it's a theory class). They show up to hear music.

I'd rather apply the theory to what I'm playing later, and enjoy the music now.

Here's the 30 second rule I teach my guitar playing friends and students…

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Originally Posted by 30 second rule
I have 30 seconds to get the audience's attention, and if I don't have it in 30 seconds they don't care what kind of guitar I play, how much theory I know, what kind of strings are on it, or what pickup is in it and which amp/preamp/PA is in the room with them.

Oh - and by the way - even if I do get their attention big-time! They still don't care what kind of guitar I play, how much theory I know, what kind of strings are on it, or what pickup is in it and which amp/preamp/PA is in the room with them. (Unless it's a group of guitar players - and the only reason they want to know is so they can buy better gear to brag about…)



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Old 05-13-2015, 07:43 AM
paulp1960 paulp1960 is offline
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I think learning songs in the style you like is more important than learning scales and theory.

If you want to play lead now or in the future then learn some of your favorite leads lines note for note until you can play them easily.

I made the mistake years ago of trying to learn theory and scales but I was arrogant about learning to play songs not composed by myself. Big mistake that was.
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Old 05-13-2015, 07:49 AM
Pualee Pualee is offline
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Ok, to further my point:

I don't feel like the music I play is getting any harder / better / more interesting that it was before.

I love music, but I cannot play to the level I desire. I am curious which route should I take to build my skills the fastest, so that I can play that kind of music? JohnPR seems to recommend just picking up the song and struggle until its done (which was one of the routes I was considering). That maybe the best route. Eventually, the struggles will pay dividends (I hope) and make the next songs easier.

I used to see and learn technical things abstractly and then they would become integrated into my playing later without much effort. But due to the time limitations I now face, I don't have the luxury of that method. Or maybe I've already picked all the low hanging fruit and have to step up to a new challenge?
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Old 05-13-2015, 11:15 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Originally Posted by Pualee View Post
Ok, to further my point:

I don't feel like the music I play is getting any harder / better / more interesting that it was before.

I love music, but I cannot play to the level I desire. I am curious which route should I take to build my skills the fastest, so that I can play that kind of music? JohnPR seems to recommend just picking up the song and struggle until its done (which was one of the routes I was considering). That maybe the best route. Eventually, the struggles will pay dividends (I hope) and make the next songs easier.
Yes, but it's not about making things easier - or about progress for its own sake.
The point is to play music you enjoy - and to conquer whatever obstacles prevent you doing that. Obviously technical shortcomings will be part of that - but I think it makes sense to focus that practice on a particular tune that requires those techniques, because then you have a rewarding goal, a purpose.
Otherwise you could well end up being technically very good, but still bored because you haven't found suitable music to apply it to.

E,g. when I master a difficult tune, I don't start thinking about looking for a more difficult tune for my next challenge. I don't like challenge for the sake of it. I get equal pleasure from both simple and complicated music (actually more from simple music most of the time).
If a tune is difficult, it has (for me) to be that much more enjoyable and rewarding as a piece of music than a simpler one - and often it isn't. I find myself struggling with a difficult piece, and I'll often end up thinking "this really isn't worth it". I get bored with it before I've mastered it. (That's probably because my musical sensibility is not very sophisticated.)
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Originally Posted by Pualee View Post
I used to see and learn technical things abstractly and then they would become integrated into my playing later without much effort. But due to the time limitations I now face, I don't have the luxury of that method. Or maybe I've already picked all the low hanging fruit and have to step up to a new challenge?
Maybe. As I say, it's not really how I see things, but YMMV.
(I can honestly say, in the 50 years I've been playing guitar, I've never once been bored, or felt I was stagnating, or on a plateau. That doesn't mean it's been a smooth upward ride. At times I might have felt I wasn't progressing, but that was fine, because I was still enjoying what I was doing. Maybe other people thought I was stagnating! If so, they were too polite to say.)
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Old 05-13-2015, 09:57 PM
El Duque El Duque is offline
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Pualee,

the boys have layed it out for you.

Find a tune you really want to learn.
Get a copy of "transcribe" and load the tune into the program. You will be able to lift those licks with ease. Go with the flow/process.
Learn a note or three, or a phrase in those 30min. you have each day.
Eventually you will learn it. Will you have played to the level you desire then?

Improvisation - can't speak to that. I think it takes a lot of practice. Jamming etc. Separate deal from learning tunes I reckon. the gurus on this forum could answer that.


We all have different priorities/responsibilities etc. that get in the way of fun things we would rather be doing. I know my time is limited after I get home from work, but the thing I want to do most now is play my guitar. Other stuff I could be doing (used to do) I don't do. I don't watch tv, movies, read, cook, garden, work on my house, or fix motorcycles ( spent a lot of my time doing this ). I play my guitar/check this forum.

find another 30 min. somewhere - get up early and play.
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Old 05-13-2015, 10:29 PM
DesertTwang DesertTwang is offline
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Life is in the way. Life comes first.
I follow a blog by James Clear, and he once wrote a piece on the difference between amateurs and professionals. His point was that amateurs let life get in the way of their goals, professionals don't. According to him, that's pretty much the only difference between them.

Although I have no ambitions of becoming a professional musician, I have tried to follow a professional approach to my guitar amateurism. It worked for a while, but then I hit a similar situation as the OP. I realized I am doing too many things and try to pursue too many passions. I don't have time for everything I would like to do, and that is already with zero TV consumption and very irregular exercise. I've come to realize that exercise needs to become a priority alongside guitar, but I'm not quite there yet.

It's tough, and I don't have a good idea on how to make it all work.
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Old 05-14-2015, 02:43 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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I follow a blog by James Clear, and he once wrote a piece on the difference between amateurs and professionals. His point was that amateurs let life get in the way of their goals, professionals don't. According to him, that's pretty much the only difference between them.

Although I have no ambitions of becoming a professional musician, I have tried to follow a professional approach to my guitar amateurism. It worked for a while, but then I hit a similar situation as the OP. I realized I am doing too many things and try to pursue too many passions. I don't have time for everything I would like to do, and that is already with zero TV consumption and very irregular exercise. I've come to realize that exercise needs to become a priority alongside guitar, but I'm not quite there yet.

It's tough, and I don't have a good idea on how to make it all work.
Exactly right. Professionals - or those who "make it" - have the ability to focus obsessively on that one pursuit. It's a rare combination of passion, drive, and self-belief.
Amateurs often have one, or even two, of those, but not all three. (That's probably because amateurs are relatively normal people! Pros are a bit weird, to be honest...)

One thing's for sure: a professional would never say they "get 30 minutes a day" to practice! They might "get" 30 minutes a day to do other stuff.... You take the time you need, that's the bottom line.
Naturally, as an amateur, you have significant other demands on your time. (Job? Family?) But if you can't take time from those, you do without sleep if necessary. Or you just resign yourself to the fact that you don't quite love it enough. You're too normal...
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Old 05-22-2015, 05:34 PM
80guitarguy 80guitarguy is offline
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I follow a blog by James Clear, and he once wrote a piece on the difference between amateurs and professionals. His point was that amateurs let life get in the way of their goals, professionals don't. According to him, that's pretty much the only difference between them.
I agree with this. I'm at a point in my guitar development where I'm starting to see that becoming a certain "type" of guitarist really boils down to making sacrifices and then having the discipline to follow through. Whether it's doing exams for classical guitar, learning how to play lead, rock solos, teach, whatever...it comes down to putting "seat time" first. Before going out with the buddies, watching a movie, sleeping in (or going to bed), hitting the gym. I think the light at the end of the tunnel though is that once you put in those long hard hours and ingrain a particular skill set or knowledge into yourself, the learning becomes easier and you feel more natural doing what your doing, so perhaps then more of life can come back into the picture. Just some thoughts.
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Old 05-23-2015, 10:08 AM
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Life is in the way. Life comes first.

I've come to accept I just don't have the time to do everything I want to do. I spend most of my practice time working on theory or fretboard learning.

I really want the ability to improvise well, and lift the licks and riffs off of a recording to play back. Should I focus on a method book, ear training and transcribing, or buy lessons for individual songs (in my chosen style), or just keep working on theory and practicing scales and chords along the neck? I feel stagnant... I get about 30 minutes a day
Hi Pualee. I'm a newer player, and am limited not by time, but by my finger pain. I can only practice about an hour a day. So like you, I have to be a bit choosy about maximizing my practice time.

It would seem to me that you are practicing the right things already. It may be that you have hit a plateau, and simply need to continue till you are beyond it.

I hold the opinion is that learning songs is but one leg in a practice routine consisting of Theory, Technique, and Repertoire. You describe your practice routine as having all three elements. This should be a recipe for success as long as you the right elements in your practice routine.

Full disclosure requires me to tell you that I have not yet reached the point in my learning that Repertoire is as significant an element as it is to you. The songs I play tend to sound an awful lot like scales, as I lack technique. So you can safely ignore what I have to say.
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