Aaron Hernandez dead.

[blue]

Originally Posted by Scott O

I deleted my post before I even typed it. On a serious note, this will be a hard spot to fill on the prison football team.

Well there is a documentary they can turn to to improve their recruitment. The Longest Yard. Actually there were two versions...

[Wadcutter]

Good Lord, talk about wasted potential. He could have done so much with himself and to help others. That's what drugs do to you I guess. R.I.P. dude, R.I.P.

[Rudals]

Just saw the Patriots team on TV visiting the White House. I wonder about the time but he probably didn't even know.

[sled]

Originally Posted by Earwitness

I really haven't read much about the Aaron Hernandez legal cases. But wasn't it that The murder he got convicted of was a man who was a witness to the double murder? Which I assume he did. However, I wonder whether this last acquittal caused him to realize that if he had just awaited trial for the double murder he would've never gone to jail at all?

But if he hadn't murdered Odin Lloyd, he would have been alive to testify against him in the double murder trial of the people he killed simply for spilling a drink on him. Sorry, more air for the rest of us to breath now. There are so many good memes going around now.... "The Patriots left him hanging"... "He could go to the Falcons, they have lots of choakers"...stuff like that....but I'm sure the humor would not fly here.....

[rokdog49]

It saddens me when any life is wasted. It also saddens me when jokes are made about it. He had family who loved him. I can't even imagine what they are feeling about his terrible deeds and wasted life. Put yourself in their shoes.

[sled]

While I feel for his family, I have no sympathy for him. He had a life gifted with talent that made him a multi millionaire, and threw it away because he would rather be a gang banger street thug who murdered 3 people, 2 of which were because they simply spilled a drink on him.

[Gitfiddlemann]

Originally Posted by sled

While I feel for his family, I have no sympathy for him. He had a life gifted with talent that made him a multi millionaire, and threw it away because he would rather be a gang banger street thug who murdered 3 people, 2 of which were because they simply spilled a drink on him.

I agree.
But the worst part of this story now is that, according to Massachusetts law, he will have died an "innocent" man.
That's because he was legally appealing his first conviction, which by law placed him back into the "innocent before proven guilty" status, and he was found not guilty in the second trial.
Think of it 10 years from now. His family will be saying: "You know, by law he was never proven to be guilty...his case was on appeal.....yadayadaya..."
Meanwhile, the families of his victims, on top of that element of doubt hanging in the air, will NEVER be able to collect any money from pending civil lawsuits, because he's still innocent under the legal status.
Now that is some kind of messed up......
They should really give some serious thought to changing these ancient laws that are still on the books in many states, including mine!

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by sled

While I feel for his family, I have no sympathy for him. He had a life gifted with talent that made him a multi millionaire, and threw it away because he would rather be a gang banger street thug who murdered 3 people, 2 of which were because they simply spilled a drink on him.

Your feelings are totally understandable.

[reeve21]

Originally Posted by AndreF

I agree.
Meanwhile, the families of his victims, on top of that element of doubt hanging in the air, will NEVER be able to collect any money from pending civil lawsuits, because he's still innocent under the legal status.
:

Hi Andre,

Rest assured, if the criminal conviction is overturned that will not prevent the families from making a recovery in civil court. In fact it is much easier to prevail in a civil lawsuit than it is to get a criminal conviction.

[amyFB]

Originally Posted by AndreF

I agree.
But the worst part of this story now is that, according to Massachusetts law, he will have died an "innocent" man.
That's because he was legally appealing his first conviction, which by law placed him back into the "innocent before proven guilty" status, and he was found not guilty in the second trial.
.....
They should really give some serious thought to changing these ancient laws that are still on the books in many states, including mine!

how would you propose to change the ancient law that allows this to take place, and without risking due process to the innocent caught up in a net by mistake?

[ewalling]

Originally Posted by sled

While I feel for his family, I have no sympathy for him. He had a life gifted with talent that made him a multi millionaire, and threw it away because he would rather be a gang banger street thug who murdered 3 people, 2 of which were because they simply spilled a drink on him.

Rage is a terrifying human characteristic. There are stories of people who will slaughter even those they love because of a momentary fit of rage. If controlling rage is not actively taught in schools, it really should be, along with how to cope with a broken heart and a number of other essential life skills. In fact, within that vast sea of scholarly factual information and logical thinking, how much time is spent on preparing young people to negotiate their way through the stuff that's really going to make or break them, I wonder?

[Gitfiddlemann]

Hi Andre,

Rest assured, if the criminal conviction is overturned that will not prevent the families from making a recovery in civil court. In fact it is much easier to prevail in a civil lawsuit than it is to get a criminal conviction.

Hi Bob,
Thanks, and good to know! I had heard from a news report that his death, and the ensuing "limbo" status his appeal affords him in MA, would make it much more difficult, if not impossible, for the family to pursue any kind of civil lawsuit.

how would you propose to change the ancient law that allows this to take place, and without risking due process to the innocent caught up in a net by mistake?

All I would change is the legal status of a person convicted of a violent crime, like 1st degree murder, from "still innocent until the appeal is over" to "still guilty unless the appeal finds otherwise".
I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not formulating it in proper legal terms, but the idea is to eliminate this "loophole" status which allows a guilty person to be considered still innocent because he or she appealed and then offed themselves, leaving bigger problems behind, especially for the victims.

[sled]

Originally Posted by ewalling

Rage is a terrifying human characteristic. There are stories of people who will slaughter even those they love because of a momentary fit of rage. If controlling rage is not actively taught in schools, it really should be, along with how to cope with a broken heart and a number of other essential life skills. In fact, within that vast sea of scholarly factual information and logical thinking, how much time is spent on preparing young people to negotiate their way through the stuff that's really going to make or break them, I wonder?

I agree wholeheartedly with that statement about teaching coping skills. But, I believe there are some people who due to some defect, just cannot be helped. I once responded to a disorder and stabbing in a home. When I got there, there was one guy laying dead on the floor, and another one sitting on the couch watching a basketball game. I asked the guy what happened and his statement was paraphrased "I killed him, the mf'er took the last pork chop and it was mine, so I stabbed him." They were brothers. No sign of remorse or sorrow that he had just killed his brother, just anger over a pork chop. How do you teach against that???

[ewalling]

Originally Posted by sled

I agree wholeheartedly with that statement about teaching coping skills. But, I believe there are some people who due to some defect, just cannot be helped. I once responded to a disorder and stabbing in a home. When I got there, there was one guy laying dead on the floor, and another one sitting on the couch watching a basketball game. I asked the guy what happened and his statement was paraphrased "I killed him, the mf'er took the last pork chop and it was mine, so I stabbed him." They were brothers. No sign of remorse or sorrow that he had just killed his brother, just anger over a pork chop. How do you teach against that???

Yeeees, I think it might take more than a group session and a reflective journal to handle that! I remember my wife telling me about an article she'd read about certain killers; that, through no apparent fault of their own, they simply didn't possess any level of empathy. Zero. It just wasn't there. It said they might grasp the concept of not harming other people on a theoretical level, but that in any meaningful sense it didn't exist.

[reeve21]

Originally Posted by AndreF

Hi Bob,
Thanks, and good to know! I had heard from a news report that his death, and the ensuing "limbo" status his appeal affords him in MA, would make it much more difficult, if not impossible, for the family to pursue any kind of civil lawsuit.

Hi Andre,

Law is complicated and often cannot be stated accurately into a sound bite. And as you say it varies from state to state.

I heard another news report supposedly quoting an attorney for the family of one of the victims stating they already had obtained "summary judgment" in their civil suit. That would typically mean that the court has already determined Hernandez (and now his estate) is liable for the death, with only the amount of the money damages yet to be determined. No mention of whether that judgment was appealed, or whether an appeal could be taken after the damages are assessed. But I took that report as good news for the family of the victim (I don't remember which victim was involved in that case).

Here is an oversimplification that may be a useful way explain why the criminal case does not control the civil cases: In civil law your liabilities can follow you to the grave in the form of a claim for money against your estate. In criminal law all liability terminates with death because the state can't lock up or execute a dead person. And of course in criminal law you have to be found guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt", unlike civil court where the standard is much lower--think of it like tipping a scale in your favor.

Hernandez grew up a few miles away from here, and we know folks who were very close with his family at one time. Obviously they have been devastated by all of this for quite some time. I met him a couple of times when he was a kid. There was no inkling things would ever turn out like this. By all reports a very engaging and humble personality, at least when with adults. His coaches all loved him, and not just because he was the star. There is a lot speculation in the local news that things started to go bad when his dad died unexpectedly when he was in high school, he decided to attend college out of state rather than locally where his older brother played football, he then fell in with the wrong crowd, started taking drugs, etc.