Rosette Thickness

[SnowManSnow]

Hey guys. I'm waiting on some finish to cure so I'm a bit dead in the water right now, but I have some cool wood scraps and fogurenill try my hand at making some wood rosettes! M only question is, what thickness do you guys make your rosettes to?
Thanks,
B.

[JonWint]

StewMac HB rosette is "Thickness: 3/64" (1.19mm)"

So < .5 x top thickness

[dekutree64]

Yeah, half the soundboard thickness is good. I have used .022" sliced veneers before, but you have to be careful to minimize the amount of leveling you need to do.

[Halcyon/Tinker]

I route the channel at .070, level, then take it to thickness from the back.

[Alan Carruth]

I doesn't hurt to make the rosette fairly thick and have it proud of the top when you glue it in. It's a drag to start out with a really thin rosette and end up sanding through it trying to level the top. If you're worried about the top thickness under the rosette, use a doubler around the sound hole the way most Classical makers do; it's cheap insurance.

[SnowManSnow]

^ yea this is what I'm asking.
I haven't MADE my own rosettes yet. I don't think I stated the question clear enough. What I meant was how thick does the stock need to be when I use my circle cutter to out the rosette so that it is thick enough to withstand working, but thin enough so I don't need an act of congress to get it thinned down to the top once installed.

[SnowManSnow]

Originally Posted by Halcyon/Tinker

I route the channel at .070, level, then take it to thickness from the back.

i remember you mentioning this before... when I had my last sound hole mishap ... good practice IMO

[redir]

By the way you described your question I'm not sure you are asking how deep do you inlay the rosette channel but rather how thick do you make the rosette. To answer that question, what ever is easiest to work with and have plenty of room for final results.

So if I had a bunch of 1/8in material around to make a rosette then I'd make a rosette out of 1/8th inch material. Then I'd probably run it through the thickness sander till it's about 3/32. Then I would inlay it proud and again thickness sand it to spec.

Usually they come out to be about 1/16th inch thick inlayed and ready to finish.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by SnowManSnow

What I meant was how thick does the stock need to be when I use my circle cutter to out the rosette so that it is thick enough to withstand working, but thin enough so I don't need an act of congress to get it thinned down to the top once installed.

A scraper and handplane can be used to make quick work of an over-thick rosette after it is installed.

I always do thicknessing of the top from the inside surface after the rosette is installed but before cutting out the sound hole.

[Halcyon/Tinker]

Exactly...

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by SnowManSnow

Hey guys. I'm waiting on some finish to cure so I'm a bit dead in the water right now, but I have some cool wood scraps and fogurenill try my hand at making some wood rosettes! M only question is, what thickness do you guys make your rosettes to?
Thanks,
B.

Mine end up about 1.2mm thick or so (final after installation and thinning...).

[Bruce Sexauer]

Despite the proliferation of segmented rosettes, there is actual intention and purpose beyond mere aesthetics. The rosette as I conceive it has two main functions, one is to seal the endgrain of the soundhole, and the other is to stiffen the lip of the soundhole with the goal of greater tonal clarity and projection. Both ends are served by making fully concentric rosettes which are 4/5 as deep as the top is thick, or more. Traditionally informed opinion, and this is the way I do it.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

Despite the proliferation of segmented rosettes, there is actual intention and purpose beyond mere aesthetics. The rosette as I conceive it has two main functions, one is to seal the endgrain of the soundhole, and the other is to stiffen the lip of the soundhole with the goal of greater tonal clarity and projection. Both ends are served by making fully concentric rosettes which are 4/5 as deep as the top is thick, or more. Traditionally informed opinion, and this is the way I do it.

Interesting.

Does that imply that soundholes that have not had their end-grain sealed by inlaying a continuous rosette are more prone to damage or are less dimensionally stable or some other negative result?

Does that imply that guitars with non-segmented rosettes have greater tonal clarity and projection? Is there no other way to provide such stiffness to the lip of the soundhole but to use a continuous rosette?

If one attempts to bend a classical guitar rosette, for example, it is not particularly stiff, probably the same or less stiff than the top across its width, and certainly less stiff than along the length of the top. One could argue that inlaying a continuous rosette actually makes the top less stiff along the grain, while being possibly a little stiffer across grain, compared to no rosette at all.

Without some form of physical measurement, its conjecture - or "tradition".

[Alan Carruth]

It's also possible to stiffen up that area of the top either with a sound hole doubler, or with bracing on either side of the hole. Both of these have been done, and, in fact, it is standard practice for Classical makers to use the doubler, for just the reason that Charles mentions: inlaying the rosette actually makes that part of the top weaker.

[Bruce Sexauer]

As I said, "Traditionally informed opinion, and this is the way I do It". No one has to agree with me, and it is my answer. Unlike much of what I do, I did learn this from my predecessors and peers. There are many ways to skin this cat, and mine has seemed work well. I did not intend my answer to seem threatening to other opinions or methods.