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  #16  
Old 11-05-2017, 08:18 PM
1neeto 1neeto is offline
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Originally Posted by SunnyDee View Post
Everything everyone else says about developing your sense of time holds. I just want to add something I noticed that might help if that's not really the issue. I learned on my own online so I've noticed many, many youtube videos, when teaching a strumming pattern, teach a robotic sort of rhythm, swing from the elbow, type of thing that seems to be appropriate if you are playing rhythm with a band where other people are playing other rhythms, too. These patterns, however, sometimes sound awful if you are playing alone and just singing the lyrics. Lyrics have a meter of their own, like poetry. When I play alone, I pay no attention to suggested rhythm patterns if they don't match the meter of the lyrics. I create one that sounds natural with the lyrics. It may be you are noticing a similar mismatch.


That’s when the “feel” thing takes over. I think having a good “robotic” rhythm foundation really helps when you want to add your own pizzazz as you grow with your guitar playing. It allows you to be a bit loose, but still on time. I know I’m not a perfect metronome while strumming, especially if I’m playing my own stuff or just trying to make a cover my own.
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  #17  
Old 11-05-2017, 09:31 PM
JAMKC JAMKC is offline
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Are you playing with other people?


Hey Matt, only on my own so far.
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  #18  
Old 11-05-2017, 09:35 PM
JAMKC JAMKC is offline
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Originally Posted by SunnyDee View Post
Everything everyone else says about developing your sense of time holds. I just want to add something I noticed that might help if that's not really the issue. I learned on my own online so I've noticed many, many youtube videos, when teaching a strumming pattern, teach a robotic sort of rhythm, swing from the elbow, type of thing that seems to be appropriate if you are playing rhythm with a band where other people are playing other rhythms, too. These patterns, however, sometimes sound awful if you are playing alone and just singing the lyrics. Lyrics have a meter of their own, like poetry. When I play alone, I pay no attention to suggested rhythm patterns if they don't match the meter of the lyrics. I create one that sounds natural with the lyrics. It may be you are noticing a similar mismatch.


SunnyDee, you might have nailed it. I only play alone and sense that I am strumming to the lyrics rather than to a beat. Now maybe I am getting the beat covered as well but can’t tell. Also, I think that if I played the same song three times in a number of days I probably would t play it the same way twice.
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  #19  
Old 11-05-2017, 09:58 PM
mattbn73 mattbn73 is offline
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Originally Posted by JAMKC View Post
Hey Matt, only on my own so far.
I just think you'd get a lot out of playing with other people, probably in several different contexts: lessons with a pro and/or a few different jam sessions of varying styles and/or ability levels. A week of that might be worth months worth of talking to people on the Internet, honestly, and I really DO like talking to people on the Internet about music. Seriously. There's just so much about rhythm that's harder to learn online, especially in text form.
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  #20  
Old 11-06-2017, 12:41 PM
JAMKC JAMKC is offline
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Taking lessons from a good teacher but he has a well defined program and we are working our way thru that so far. Hasn't included any work on strumming/rhythm.
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  #21  
Old 11-06-2017, 01:09 PM
beninma beninma is offline
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Originally Posted by mattbn73 View Post
I just think you'd get a lot out of playing with other people, probably in several different contexts: lessons with a pro and/or a few different jam sessions of varying styles and/or ability levels. A week of that might be worth months worth of talking to people on the Internet, honestly, and I really DO like talking to people on the Internet about music. Seriously. There's just so much about rhythm that's harder to learn online, especially in text form.
This.. unless you just started something sounds wrong if the teacher hasn't worked on this with you. I feel like it's something that has been worked on every single guitar lesson I've had. (I started lessons this year)

Also playing with other people is really excellent. That's also very new for me but if you jump into a session with a bunch other guitarists/instrumentalists pounding out a steady beat it gets drilled into your head incredibly fast. I guess the threshold is probably enough of them that they drown out your mistakes, then you'll just internalize the beat.
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  #22  
Old 11-06-2017, 03:33 PM
vindibona1 vindibona1 is offline
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This is difficult to do here. As they say... 1000 words is worth a picture. But your description fits, almost to a T, a guy that I've been working with.

But in a nutshell, the way I see it is that you, like many new musicians are trying to play GUITAR when you should be focusing on playing THE MUSIC. It is important to recognize that difference before anything else. Now, recognize that strumming IS "rhythm" guitar. When most folks think of the rhythm of a song then primarily think DRUMS, not guitar, right? So instead of thinking 1, 2, 3, 4, you need to understand that the 1-2-3-4 may be the PULSE, but not the rhythm. You don't hear drums, even in their most simple patterns doing that. Start by recognizing what the drums are or could be doing and try to emulate that with your strumming.

It's great that you know a lot of chords. But now it's time to focus on your right hand and how to COORDINATE both hands. You have to learn a workable strum pattern to each song you're taking on. Then you have to learn how to modify it to fit the music. It may be that some beats have to be more muted as if you're playing drums. You do that by lightening up with your left hand so the notes are sort of there, but mostly ghosted as the strum provides a drum like quality. You will need to learn when to strum some of the strings and then when to hit all the strings letting them ring. You'll need which beats need accents and need to be strummed (momentarily) harder and which need to be backed away from. If you're playing with a singer you'll need to know when the singer needs to shine and find the space where your guitar needs to shine.

As I said... 1000 words is worth a picture. Translation: One face to face lesson is worth 100 hours of frustration and plateau. Good luck.
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  #23  
Old 11-08-2017, 07:16 PM
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KDepew KDepew is offline
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HI JAMKC, folks have funs this lesson helpful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH1ZvyI-G1k&t=6s
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  #24  
Old 11-09-2017, 10:00 PM
JAMKC JAMKC is offline
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Kevin, thanks for posting that, very helpful.
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  #25  
Old 11-10-2017, 05:12 AM
paulp1960 paulp1960 is offline
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I would counter argue that a lot of drumming in contemporary music does go 1-2-3-4 or 1 + 2 + 3 + 4. Bass drum on 1 and 3 snare on 2 and 4 and a high hat on all the +s. The first drumming pattern in my Cajon lessons though there is no hi-hat so that is just a lighter touch on the Cajon.

I play with a couple of guitarists who struggle immensely with this notion. They talk about feel but if you can't feel it you need to get counting it out.

In a lot of applications you need to be able to "find the one". By that I mean the first beat of a bar. Otherwise it is very hard to play with backing tracks or other musicians.
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  #26  
Old 11-14-2017, 03:29 PM
s0cks s0cks is offline
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Originally Posted by tonyo View Post
I've had a number of players tell me to just feel it and do it. Hasn't worked for me. If you can do it by feel, that's great. I need to understand the mechanics / theory / principle behind the strum (or other technique), slow it down, and then it works for me.

After I've done that for a while I get the "feel" for it, I wish it could play out more easily for me but alas that's how I learn.
The problem is the English language doesn't really have the right words to describe that "feeling". I recently found my inner groove, and now when people say you need to "feel" it, I understand exactly what they mean. Whether I could describe it is another thing.

Once you hone this state of mind (or feeling), and practice, it gets easier and easier to lock onto it.

the only thing I can say, is if you are thinking about where to place notes it will sound mediocre. Groove comes from a subconscious place, so you can't think about it like you would a logical problem. It's more like walking or breathing - it just happens.
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  #27  
Old 11-14-2017, 03:43 PM
reeve21 reeve21 is offline
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I'm not a teacher and a mediocre player, but here is how I learned to strum in time.

1. Count--out loud--1,2,3, 4 etc.

2. Tap foot--match the counts.

3. The right hand never stops going up and down, one full cycle per beat--you just miss (or mute) the strings on the beats that don't sound out in a particular song. Think of a piston in a car engine.

4. Try the DDUUDU pattern--it's in Tequila Sunrise and lots of others...a good place to start.

5. Sing--very often the timing of the lyrics will help you keep the beat (but not always, sometimes just the opposite!)

There is a lot of oversimplification here but I think it is a good place to start.
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