Why is Martin set up so poor?

[ticonderoga100]

I really don't know if this applies to what you are saying, but I have had the misfortune of seeing some pretty horrrrrendous things done to guitars in guitar stores. All you need is for a shredder or a 'Van Halen neck-bender' to get a hold of one for about five minutes and there could very well be trouble down the road.

[brian a.]

Snippet,
Next time you at this or any other guitar store testing guitars ask the clerk if a setup comes with the purchase of the guitar. Explain how you like the looks and sound of the Martin D-28, but would prefer the action to be more like the Taylor. Ask if they could make that adjustment for you to help with your decision of which to buy. Perhaps they will make the quick adjustment on the spot for you.

Good luck with your shopping,
Brian

[Snippet]

Brian

Very helpful that.

Where I shop they do include a set up for free so thats a real good suggestion.

Does anyone know what gauge strings Martin's come with as standard.

I use Martin 11 gauge strings and maybe they come outta the factory with a another gauge which will make it feel 'different' to what i am used to(still learning guys)

[dmoss74]

Originally Posted by Snippet

Woooaah,I am novice regarding Martin's and Taylors so excuse my lack of understanding or indeed phrasing.

When I said the set up is poor,I meant the action is too high for me and everyone I know.Poor may have been too strong a phrase so excuse my haste.

If its easily resolved(adjusting the action) then thats great but as I say I am a novice and am finding these things out by asking the question.

I have never fixed a guitar in my life but I have played a few,I'm not lazy just never felt comfortable with fixing things by being too worried about messing things up.

All the Taylors and Martins I played sounded great,I just preferred the d28(what a wonderful full sound).They had a beautiful Martin 00042 second hand that was very rich in tone but at 3k well of my reach.

Sorry if this has been covered,its all a learning curve for me

:headscratch:

the idea is that you provide enough saddle so that people can adjust it to their liking, depending on string gauge they prefer, and personal taste in action. your personal "setup" (action height, neck relief etc) is not going to be the same as someone else's.

so now you can see why it might appear to be high to you. what if the low action of another guitar is too low for me? now i need a new saddle, or some form of shim to bring the action up.

setups are something that should be accounted for in the purchase of any guitar. i have rarely bought a guitar that came home setup to my personal specs. it's nice if it happens, but the forty to sixty bucks for a pro setup is money well spent. especially on a high end guitar that costs thousands of dollars.

this is also why a commission from a luthier will get you a guitar the way you want it the first time, or they will make it so instantly. it's tough to do that when you are selling a model to hundreds of thousands of potential customers.

[dmoss74]

Originally Posted by Snippet

Brian

Where I shop they do include a set up for free so thats a real good suggestion.

Does anyone know what gauge strings Martin's come with as standard.

I use Martin 11 gauge strings and maybe they come outta the factory with a another gauge which will make it feel 'different' to what i am used to(still learning guys)

problem solved...and strings are a personal issue. as long as you don't use a gauge higher than recommended by the manufacturer, you'll be fine. have the guitar setup for a "gauge", not a brand.

[blue]

Originally Posted by HudsDad

Martins generally come from the factory with a high action, but that's something a lot of players prefer (bluegrass, etc) and it's easily adjusted if you like a lower action. Other than that, I've yet to see one in a shop with a setup I'd consider "poor."

Now I haven't worked in a guitar store in near 30 years now, but back then it was closer to the truth to say "Martins generally come from the factory without being setup"! Do they still come with the bridge pins sitting high and not even set into position? They used to. Kind of set the expectation in my mind that the guitar was meant to be set to the customer's preference.

I always thought of it as a fine suit, vs. something from the Men's warehouse. When you buy a truly nice suit, the expectation is that you will then have it tailored (not Taylored) to fit you perfectly.

It's an old school approach that companies like Taylor and Larrivee has rendered strange, and in 90% of the purchases that go down obsolete in the consumer's mind by delivering guitars already setup in some kind of "universal" setup, where almost everyone can be reasonably happy with the guitar they pull off the wall. And for some people being able to walk out with the guitar right now, with no additional investment, may be a selling point.

I have no interest in Martin guitars personally, so I haven't pulled one off the wall in I don't know how long, so I can't say that this is still the case. But it sure was. And I respected it. It kind of set the expectation that "this is for serious musicians, and we expect you to know what you want, and not be happy until you get it"

Remember there was no internet in the '70s Very often my first job in selling a Martin was to explain to the customer that the "Only use medium gauge or lighter strings or you will void the warranty" statement didn't mean the guitar was inferior to other guitars that didn't say that

[Snippet]

Originally Posted by dmoss74

problem solved...and strings are a personal issue. as long as you don't use a gauge higher than recommended by the manufacturer, you'll be fine. have the guitar setup for a "gauge", not a brand.

I have been doing that but did wonder about the standard gauge martin use if they do such a thing

[sachi]

Martin uses different gauges on different guitars. Some come with mediums, some with lights.

[Sammy_L_D]

Originally Posted by Snippet

I have been doing that but did wonder about the standard gauge martin use if they do such a thing

Many Martin guitars come with 13s from the factory, but some may have 12s. You can use a digital micrometer to check if the dealer doesn't know.

Now, just to clarify and summarize what has been said, as I haven't seen it in one sentence yet: Martin prefers to have the guitars come from the factory with relatively high action, so that the buyer can decide if they'd like the action lowered.

Phew, there we go. Good luck with the purchase if you are inclined to do it!

[brian a.]

Originally Posted by Snippet

I have been doing that but did wonder about the standard gauge martin use if they do such a thing

Martin uses different gauge strings on different models. Dreads typically have mediums (13s). Smaller body models OM, 000, 00 typically have lights (12s).

Go to the Martin website and you can see which strings are recommended for each model. Here is a link:
http://www.martinguitar.com/guitars/choosing/model.php

[Snippet]

................Thank you

[Tony Burns]

typically every guitar i buy goes threw a set-up -so they way they come is not that important as long as theirs enough bone in the saddle -it doesnt matter.

[blue]

Originally Posted by Tony Burns

typically every guitar i buy goes threw a set-up -so they way they come is not that important as long as theirs enough bone in the saddle -it doesnt matter.

Which is why when buying unseen, new or used, I always ask for measurements on the action at the 12th, the relief, and how much saddle is sticking up over the bridge. Put those together and I know if I can work with the guitar. It's no guarantee the guitar will be okay, but it's as close as I've figured out to get to such a guarantee. Hard to get someone to do the ol' "straight edge on the fingerboard and see where it lines up on the bridge" test over the phone

[moon]

Action is a combination of three things: nut, neck relief and saddle and they should all be considered together if you make an adjustment. Ideally a decent guitar would come supplied with nuts and saddles in low, medium and high sizes. If you don't like whichever has been installed just swap the ones you like. Even a nut wouldn't be hard to change at home if it's ready-carved.

[Boneyard75]

First the disclaimer....I love my Martins, but I think the OP has a good point....Why in the world would Martin not want to sell a guitar that is as close to perfect as possible for the majority of players....And don't hand me that "it's better for the bluegrass player crap"....because I don't buy it....It has to be a cost issue, but I believe the company is hurting itself by not selling their guitars with a near perfect setup....Bob Taylor will settle for nothing less....Why does Martin? ....I'll bet they do it for special customers.....Why not for the rest of us?
My 2 cents ....Boneyard