The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > PLAY and Write

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 02-01-2018, 02:54 PM
jfq722 jfq722 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 172
Default If you own PlaneTalk and Fretboard logic....

Can anyone answer this for me?

On page 33 of PlaneTalk there is an image of an A shape and notes around it.

I thought this would correspond to pages 15 or 19 of Fretboard Logic.

I was hoping to see the same pattern of notes over the two A shapes.

Can anyone point out my misunderstanding?

thanks, joe
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-02-2018, 08:09 PM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Twin Cities
Posts: 8,085
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfq722 View Post
Can anyone answer this for me?

On page 33 of PlaneTalk there is an image of an A shape and notes around it.

I thought this would correspond to pages 15 or 19 of Fretboard Logic.

I was hoping to see the same pattern of notes over the two A shapes.

Can anyone point out my misunderstanding?

thanks, joe
PlaneTalk and Fretboard Logic are two different approaches to the guitar.

PlaneTalk uses three triad forms as the basis of everything it teaches. I don't want to describe it further because that would be giving away the course material.

Fretboard Logic teaches the CAGED system of 5 basic shapes. You can find that anywhere on the internet, so I wouldn't be giving anything away. I wrote quite a paper on the CAGED system from the perspective of playing in the chord melody style, back in 1995. It is still floating around the internet.

There are advantages and disadvantages to each system. In hindsight, I think I prefer PlaneTalk's system because its forms are much smaller, and therefore, easier to manipulate. Besides that, Kirk Lorange is an excellent guitar player.

I think that if you are trying to go back and forth, mapping what one method teaches onto the other method, you will end up getting confused, even though they do, in fact, overlap because what PlaneTalk has in its triad forms are really smaller parts of the larger CAGED system.

My suggestion is to study one or the other, rather than both at the same time. When you really understand one system, the you can dig into the other if you feel the need.

Kirk Lorange has a YouTube video explain the CAGED system, so if you study his PlaneTalk, you may want to watch that too:



As for which system to learn first, peruse both and see which makes the most immediate sense to you. Different people think differently, and that is probably why there are so many systems for understanding the fretboard.

Edit: I forgot to explain what the PlaneTalk diagram you refer to shows...

Kirk shows you the three triad shapes, and then around these, he shows you all the surrounding notes for the major scale that the shape is a part of. The value of this is that you learn to construct ANY type of chord or lead line around and including that triad. Kirk's focus in that course of study is playing lead lines. His approach certainly sounds better to my ears than a strict "box" shape pentatonic scale, it is more melodic and fits a wider range of styles.

It is interesting to note that Joe Pass taught the CAGED system, not because he necessarily used it, but because it was an easy way for beginners to visualize the fretboard. Johnny Smith taught a system very similar to PlaneTalk. It isn't that one system is better than the other, but that different people find what works best for them for whatever it is they need to do.

Tony
__________________
“The guitar is a wonderful thing which is understood by few.”
— Franz Schubert

"Alexa, where's my stuff?"
- Anxiously waiting...

Last edited by tbeltrans; 02-02-2018 at 08:27 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-03-2018, 08:14 AM
Lakedaisy Lakedaisy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 239
Default

jfq... Thank you for asking the question. I haven't seen my PlaneTalk book in years. I got it out this morning and am reading through it again. Great fretboard teaching book.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-03-2018, 09:34 AM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Twin Cities
Posts: 8,085
Default

It is interesting how mention of these books in a forum can re-ignite our interest in them. Either approach is good, but the best is the one that makes the most sense to your way of thinking.

Tony
__________________
“The guitar is a wonderful thing which is understood by few.”
— Franz Schubert

"Alexa, where's my stuff?"
- Anxiously waiting...
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-05-2018, 08:41 AM
jfq722 jfq722 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 172
Default

Thanks all! I'd have to say I do prefer PlaneTalk
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-06-2018, 12:45 PM
jfq722 jfq722 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 172
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeltrans View Post
I wrote quite a paper on the CAGED system from the perspective of playing in the chord melody style, back in 1995. It is still floating around the internet.
Found it - thank you brother! Got some coffee, gonna give it a read!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-09-2018, 10:25 AM
Blueser100's Avatar
Blueser100 Blueser100 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: California
Posts: 5,046
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakedaisy View Post
jfq... Thank you for asking the question. I haven't seen my PlaneTalk book in years. I got it out this morning and am reading through it again. Great fretboard teaching book.
Same here. I bought Plane Talk many years ago but my skill level wasn't that great then and I didn't really understand it. I'm looking to understand chords better and their relationship to scales at this point so maybe I should revisit the course.

Thanks for this thread.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-09-2018, 12:41 PM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Twin Cities
Posts: 8,085
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfq722 View Post
Found it - thank you brother! Got some coffee, gonna give it a read!
Thanks! I am glad that the paper continues to be helpful. There are many sites around that describe the CAGED system, but typically do so by just looking at the surface involving chord 5 forms. Since each form can cover all 6 strings, together they provide complete coverage of the fretboard for everything.

Here is an analogy that I use. I live in the Twin Cities metro area. It seems typical for many folks around here to live in one of the two cities (Minneapolis or St. Paul), and to be only passably familiar with the other, such as maybe just knowing how to get to their job or whatever instead of knowing the entire street layout as they do their home city.

For me, my "home city" is the Minneapolis area. In order to get around in St. Paul, I think of everything as being relative to the primary freeway, I-94. As long as I know where I-94 is from wherever I happen to be in St. Paul, I can find my way around from there.

That is what the CAGED system can be. To carry it a bit further, and give some perspective, consider that if I go to St. Paul frequently, eventually I no longer need to rely on knowing where I-94 is because I become familiar with the streets. The same is true of the CAGED system. Over time, the need for the CAGED system falls away and the entire fretboard is at your fingertips.

So, in reality, the CAGED system is a learning tool that only needs to be useful until you no longer need it. It does not have to be a crutch as some folks will claim. The better you know the fretboard, the more natural creative music making can be for you.

The CAGED system is not the only way to achieve fretboard fluency, but it is the most widely known, yet probably the least explored for al that it can provide, a bit like the circle of 5ths.

Tony
__________________
“The guitar is a wonderful thing which is understood by few.”
— Franz Schubert

"Alexa, where's my stuff?"
- Anxiously waiting...
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > PLAY and Write

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=