Rainsong vs Emerald X20 (again)

[Earl49]

1. The 100 and 200 series with the 1-11/16" nut width feel OK but different than the 300+ series with the 1-3/4" neck. They are all pretty good, but not quite the same.

2. Side markers are there on each model. There have been many AGF threads about adding decals or even adding your own inlaid dots to the fret board. Emerald eschews fret board markers - with a couple of exceptions - preferring the clean finger board look. Side dots work fine for me, and I don't even see the fret board markers unless I am using poor posture (slouching on the sofa).

3. Pickup options are so variable and subject to personal taste and uses. My preference is to get a guitar without any pickup, and go aftermarket later. The battery-in-a-bag version is not too troublesome, and most consider that an upgrade to the barn door systems that have the battery as part of the pre-amp. I remove the battery when traveling to avoid having loose parts flinging around inside the guitar if I ever have to check it. After 15+ years, I don't recall a battery bag departing from the inner side of the guitar.

4. Yes, Emerald was on vacation until today. I received a reply from Sean about my order very early this morning.

IIRC, Taylor fret boards have a 15" radius, and Rainsong uses a flatter 20" radius. Some edges are "rounder" than others, which affects feel, especially if you thumb-over. I have no trouble swapping between Taylor, Rainsong, and the only Emerald that I have been able to test drive (so far).

And I am a little sensitive to neck profile -- had to sell off all four of my Martin's because the 1-11/16" MLO neck was driving my left hand crazy. Twenty minutes on any modern MLO Martin and my hand aches for the rest of the day, whereas I can play my Rainsong's, Taylor's or the Blackbird -- or any wider 1-7/8" neck -- for hours without any hand issues. I jammed for 2½ hours on Saturday with my Rainsong, then played my Taylor twelve string for 90 minutes Sunday.

[Carmel Cedar]

Agree with the general sentiments on both necks. Just wanted to point out that for a modest fee you can specify a custom neck on any Emerald...for example, "make the neck shape/thickness exactly like my Taylor 114".

I have a Rainsong P12 and an Emerald X7 (the X7 having a neck I specified to be Taylor-shape/thickness), and there ain't no mistaking the two. As Ted says, many folks are not very sensitive to it ... but I am. If you are as well, this may be an option to consider. I decided life was too short, and the upcharge small enough, that it was silly not to go for the 'perfect' neck, vs go with a mass-market compromise, as fine as it might be. However, if you're flexible on neck shape/thickness, save the customization charge and go with a stock model of either make. They both sound fantastic - in different ways, but both are awesome!

[pandaroo]

Originally Posted by zeeway

Well, i have that itch for a new guitar, and I am trying to decide between a Rainsong OM and an Emerald X20...and I have permission to proceed from my lovely, smart, wonderful wife. But I have not played either guitar, which makes me a bit nervous. A couple of questions:

1. I play a Taylor 114ce now and I do like the neck on that guitar a lot. I have measured the fretboard width at the nut as 1-11/16 inch. I see the fretboard width on both CF guitars as 1-3/4 inch...I don't see that as a problem. But I am concerned whether one of those necks is considerably "fatter", thus making it more difficult for me to play as I do not have big hands. Can anyone compare for me the necks on the Rainsong and the X20 with the Taylor 114 neck?

2. I do not see any fretboard markers on the Rainsong C-OM. Are there any? While that may not be a deal breaker, it would be a bit weird.

3. The pickup choices on the stock models would push me a bit toward the Rainsong as I don't really like the battery in a bag, but apparently others have learned to live with it. Any guidance for me here?

4. One last question. Is the Emerald factory on shutdown now? Reopening?

Thank you kindly.

I have a Rainsong CH-WS and an Emerald X20

Question #1 - Ted is right, both neck profile is close enough that I dont think you will have problem transitioning to

Question #2 - The Emerald X20 do not have any fret board makers but certain Rainsong models have markers as others have pointed out

Question #3 - Emerald do offer other pick up choices other than what's listed

Question #4 - May be on holidays?

Hope this helps

[Doubleneck]

I failed to see that the OP Taylor has a 1 11/16 neck. That is my favorite width as well as the slimmer profile. You just don't see that width on carbon guitars? 1 3/4 has become the standard I think because fingerstylist prefer it. Wood guitars are the only place I see the 11/16 and it is one reason my early McKnight is my favorite guitar. It's a 1 11/16 though Tim now makes 1 3/4 as standard.

[Frettingflyer]

I have an X20, Rainsong Shorty and Blackbird Lucky 13. As for the 2 you mention, both are great guitars. I find the Emerald better for strumming and singing along, but the Shorty does well there too. I play mostly finger style and if I could only have one CF it would be the Shorty I think.
The neck is a bit "fatter" and the fretboard is also a bit flatter, but it is an easy adjustment from my Taylor GC models that I prefer for wood guitars to the Shorty.
Emerald will customize anything for a price and I would go shorter scale if ordering another one. I find if I play a few hours on the X20 my fingers are sore where that is not the case on any of my other guitars. It may be scale, but break angle and body shape affect string tension as well so there may be more to it?
As others said, both make great guitars, worth a road trip to test drive what you can. Sean may be able to find an Emerald owner near you that he could contact as well, fwiw.

[Captain Jim]

Another disclosure here: for over 4 decades, I would not have considered buying a guitar I hadn't played first. My third Taylor was an 814ce that I bought on-line/phone... I already knew I liked the sound and feel, and their guitars are very consistent. I bought that guitar from Jim at Guitar Rodeo - he asked what I liked for set-up, and the guitar arrived perfect for me. It has a beautiful tobacco burst finish that I haven't seen in any other "guitar shopping."

I will admit there was some angst with that first on-line purchase. Since that time, every guitar I have purchased as been on-line. I played one RainSong a couple months before I bought the Shorty from Ted; that was my only CF exposure at the time. I was delighted with the Shorty from the first strum. Yes, the neck feel isn't "Taylor-like," but it wasn't a tough adjustment.

Both of my Emeralds were bought on-line from the Emerald folks in Ireland. I bought the X7 after reading so many good things about them on this forum. It was an easy decision to get the X20 (one of the monthly Select Series), with the experience of owning the X7.

All this to say: I have not been disappointed with a quality guitar purchase from any trusted on-line dealer. The Shorty needed a good set-up (and a shorter saddle) to make it as comfortable as my Taylors. On the X7, I sanded down the saddle a bit and made a very small tweak to the neck. The X20 came in perfect for my playing style (I don't recall if Sean and I discussed my preferences). You can make adjustments to make the guitar more comfortable for you. I would not hesitate to buy one on-line again, especially knowing that you can't just zip down to the local guitar shop to try out some carbon fiber options.

[jaan]

Originally Posted by Carmel Cedar

Agree with the general sentiments on both necks. Just wanted to point out that for a modest fee you can specify a custom neck on any Emerald...for example, "make the neck shape/thickness exactly like my Taylor 114".

I have a Rainsong P12 and an Emerald X7 (the X7 having a neck I specified to be Taylor-shape/thickness), and there ain't no mistaking the two. As Ted says, many folks are not very sensitive to it ... but I am. If you are as well, this may be an option to consider. I decided life was too short, and the upcharge small enough, that it was silly not to go for the 'perfect' neck, vs go with a mass-market compromise, as fine as it might be. However, if you're flexible on neck shape/thickness, save the customization charge and go with a stock model of either make. They both sound fantastic - in different ways, but both are awesome!

I guess this depends on your definition of modest. I checked, and it was a $500 upgrade to change the neck profile.

[Ted @ LA Guitar Sales]

Originally Posted by Carmel Cedar

Agree with the general sentiments on both necks. Just wanted to point out that for a modest fee you can specify a custom neck on any Emerald...

Interesting info, jaan. I wonder if Rainsong, Journey, Blakbird or CA would be willing to offer a different neck option if folks were willing to pay $500 for it.

[jaan]

Originally Posted by Ted @ LA Guitar Sales

Interesting info, jaan. I wonder if Rainsong, Journey, Blakbird or CA would be willing to offer a different neck option if folks were willing to pay $500 for it.

Solid question Ted. I didn't ask to do the send in a mold of my neck and match it like some guys have. I just asked if they had something already done that was more like a Mod V like my martin or SCGC, so I was surprised it was that much since I wasn't looking for an exact match.

[Ted @ LA Guitar Sales]

Originally Posted by jaan

Solid question Ted. I didn't ask to do the send in a mold of my neck and match it like some guys have. I just asked if they had something already done that was more like a Mod V like my martin or SCGC, so I was surprised it was that much since I wasn't looking for an exact match.

Your info was especially interesting to me because I recently discussed custom neck options with several CF builders, and they seemed to think no one would be willing to pay extra, or enough extra to make the option possible.

So did you go with the custom neck?

[Doubleneck]

Difficult for me to see someone like Rainsong ever offering another neck profile. Most people don't care or even notice neck profiles. The expense of a mold has to be justified by the demand and they don't sell a lot of guitars anyway, compared to the major wood makers. That's why it's important to pick the right profile to begin with. I never like Steve Miller's music that much either. Lol

[Ted @ LA Guitar Sales]

Originally Posted by Doubleneck

Difficult for me to see someone like Rainsong ever offering another neck profile. Most people don't care or even notice neck profiles. The expense of a mold has to be justified by the demand and they don't sell a lot of guitars anyway, compared to the major wood makers. That's why it's important to pick the right profile to begin with. I never like Steve Miller's music that much either. Lol

Given how man times you and a few others have extolled the virtues of being able to order a custom neck, I'm a bit surprised by the highlighted comment, but I would think that if folks are willing to pay $500 a pop for a different neck, than it just might be worth the cost of a new mold, or two or three.

[mot]

Originally Posted by Ted @ LA Guitar Sales

I would think that if folks are willing to pay $500 a pop for a different neck, than it just might be worth the cost of a new mold, or two or three.

Probably depends on how much it costs to create the mold. I am guessing the costs vary wildly depending on the process used. Then you have to find somebody that actually wants that particular neck too.

[jaan]

Originally Posted by Ted @ LA Guitar Sales

Your info was especially interesting to me because I recently discussed custom neck options with several CF builders, and they seemed to think no one would be willing to pay extra, or enough extra to make the option possible.

So did you go with the custom neck?

I haven't ordered yet, I'm still hashing it out. I'm weighing if I can just live with the standard one. I have big hands with the start of some arthritis, and I'm finding thin necks don't work for me. But from what I'm seeing in my research, the X20 necks may have enough "meat" to them.

Ordering a custom neck could be questionable if you don't know what the standard neck on a guitar is like. Before getting hold of my X20 I was sure that the Taylor neck was the best for me but couldn't justify the extra cost in getting a custom neck made for it. Never having played an Emerald I just accepted that I would have to adjust to the different neck profile but was surprised to find that though a little different, the standard X20 neck suits me better than the Taylor neck. If I had simply ordered a Taylor-like custom neck I would have ended up with something that is not as good for my particular needs.