#16
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Taylor GS Mini Mahogany La Michoacana Classical (my Dad's guitar) Beat to heck Seagull S6 Ovation Celebrity 12 string Fender CD 60 dread that lives in Greece Harmonicas in a Farmer rack |
#17
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Tuning the B string .
When you talk about problems “tuning” the B string, I presume you’re referring to fretted notes on that string sounding “off”, even when the open string pitch is perfect. Most players understand that the saddle must be placed back from the nominal scale length, in order to “compensate” for the stretching of the string while fretting, causing the string to go sharp. Clearly the amount of compensation for each string varies, giving rise to the familiar slant on an acoustic saddle.
The amount of compensation required for any particular string is a matter of physics, but includes several variables: string material, core diameter, string weight, string height, scale-length, tuned pitch. (I have a spreadsheet that I use for calculating ideal compensation on both nut and saddle for special instruments like baritones, multi-scale and drop tuning, where there are no rules-of-thumb for saddle location). Even then, the equal spacing between frets means that some fretted notes will never be perfect — this is the nature of a guitar. There are “averaging” approaches to sweeten issues with fret spacing. So what’s special about the B string on a typical 6 string with standard tuning? Like the e string, the B is unwound, but is thicker and heavier, so requires more compensation, which is done by angling the saddle. But, the wound G string has a smaller core, requiring LESS compensation. The E string has a similar issue, as it requires MORE compensation — although people are generally more tolerant of sharp notes in this frequency range. Trying to fit the ideal compensation points of all 6 strings on a single, angled saddle is impossible if the saddle is only 3/32” wide — and the B string is always the loser, and to a lesser extent the E string also suffers. It is only just possible on a 1/8” saddle, if the saddle placement is exactly correct on the bridge. Some makers address the issue with a split saddle (e.g., George Lowden, Takamine). On my guitars, I’ve gone to a single 3/16” or 5mm saddle, to allow compensation even for drop tunings, 12-strings and the like. The B string problem is usually identified by fingerstyle players — strong attack with a pick masks the sour fretted sounds. When I have repair clients complaining about their b-string, and the guitar has a 3/32” saddle, the usual fix is to recut the saddle slot and install a wider saddle that can be intonated more accurately. Some don’t like the look of my preferred 3/16” saddles, but no one complains that a 1/8” saddle looks weird.
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Tim Mullin Shefford, QC CANADA Last edited by Tim Mullin; 01-21-2018 at 10:31 AM. |
#18
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This is my experience as well!
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Martin CEO-7, Martin 000-15sm, Gibson J-35, Ibanez AC240, Yamaha FD01S, Journey RT660 |
#19
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I've been cursing that string since I took up the guitar. I have to tune it a little sharp, unlike the rest of the world, to sound right to my ears. I also have to retune depending on the key I'm playing. Tuning it a little sharp gets ugly if you're playing in D. Sometimes when I'm playing a song I'll think the B is off, only to discover the problem is with the G.
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#20
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I always tune the B 2-4 cents flat. Even with compensated saddles.
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#21
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Hi Charlie…
A compensated saddle is the answer. I owned a Martin which I had to tune the B string differently for key of E, G and D. Didn't know about compensating saddles in those days. Someone posted a 'stock' compensated saddle a few posts above. Works wonders and requires no extra thinking while tuning. Nowdays, all my guitars have compensated saddles, and I just tune the same for every key. |
#22
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Tuning the B string .
Yeah, I usually find the B string the least stable (from a tuning point of view—usually going sharp I think) and most prone to pull out of tune with a capo as well.
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Englemann/Hog OM (Carson Crickmore course custom build), Breedlove Premier Concert (R/W), 1977 S Yairi YD303, Yamaha LJ16, Fender Tele Standard, Furch Little Jane (Cedar), Baby Taylor BT1 |
#23
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The b string is the one I love to hate as well. I don’t think there is a perfect solution for every key, but I generally end up lowering the B a bit. The sweetened tuning helps for many chords, but an E chord fingerpicked without deflection would obviously have a 9 cent difference between the outer E’s. I do find it’s worth a couple of seconds to tweak it for some keys.
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Keith Martin 000-42 Marquis Taylor Classical Alvarez 12 String Gibson ES345s Fender P-Bass Gibson tenor banjo |
#24
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It's the same for everyone.
Compensated saddle helps but doesn't cure. Something to do with tempered scales or some such. I NEVER tune my B string to B - I tune it to the D on the3rd fret. See This : Hope it helps, Ol' Andy
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Silly Moustache, Just an old Limey acoustic guitarist, Dobrolist, mandolier and singer. I'm here to try to help and advise and I offer one to one lessons/meetings/mentoring via Zoom! |
#25
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Thanks a million for your inputs my amigos..
Seems as though I'm not the only one on with B string issues. There's a lot of things for me to try here.. The fitting of a compensating saddle ( I like this idea) as well as The James Taylor tuning,tuning the B a little bit flat .. a wider saddle to give more scope in getting intonation correct etc. I have a Kiso Suzuki Three S guitar at a Luthier's at the moment and he's fitting a wider saddle.. It'll be interesting to see where he has the point where the B string sits. Thanks all ... |
#26
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Very many thanks - I shall try this. I'd like to say also that I very much enjoyed your company for those 6 minutes. Cheers.
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#27
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I have a few other videos on YouTube. Silly Moustache, mostly songs for consideration by my trio/quartet, as I haven't performed solo for sometime - still recovering from an illness. Stop by some time, see what you think. Whereabouts in the UK are you? (if not confidential).
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Silly Moustache, Just an old Limey acoustic guitarist, Dobrolist, mandolier and singer. I'm here to try to help and advise and I offer one to one lessons/meetings/mentoring via Zoom! |
#28
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Yep - this seems to be the best method for me also. I really got into acoustic guitar a few years ago and I thought something was wrong with my new guitar because of that B string.
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#29
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That's why they make tuners.....
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#30
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+1 on this. There are free tuner apps out there with cents capability. Try it. It really works and check out James Taylor’s YouTube video explaining this method.
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