KK Pickup--Do I need a preamp?

[MGuts]

I just went and played a D-35 that I'm going to be buying as soon as my amp sells.

The guy in the store recommended a K&K Pure Western. I saw on their website that they also sell preamps. Do I need a preamp to get the guitar to sound best? I don't mean to sound like a dope, but does a preamp go in the guitar, also?

[colinmac]

You don't need a preamp, but it's often a good idea. If you plug the K&K into a low impedance input then your tone will suffer. People report different levels of happiness with different preamps, but K&K's own preamp seems, not surprisingly, to be universally regarded as a good match for the pickup.

You can get a K&K preamp that goes inside the guitar, but the normal setup is to have the pickup outside (on the floor, hanging from a belt, whatever).

[jayhawk]

Depends on where and how your playing. If you are playing directly into an amp, you should be fine. If you are plugging into a PA system then you should at least be plugging into an active DI box (not a passive DI. An active DI will require some sort of power).

That being said a pre-amp would be a great thing to have. Even going into an amp I was surprised at how much better the sound was with a preamp.

Jack

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by MGuts

...The guy in the store recommended a K&K Pure Western. I saw on their website that they also sell preamps. Do I need a preamp to get the guitar to sound best? I don't mean to sound like a dope, but does a preamp go in the guitar, also?

Hi MG…
Short answer is Yes it will sound better with a preamp. Much better...more full and better high end. It has plenty of power without a preamp, and that remains constant with addition of a preamp. What it benefits from when using a preamp is the frequency range is expanded.

A little more info...

• Preamp can be internal or external. I have 4 K&K Pure Western mini equipped guitars, and I use a single external preamp with multiple guitars.
• If the battery dies, it's easier to change on an external preamp.
• The quality of sound from the external preamps is higher quality.
• Contrary to what K&K says, many of us use other brands of preamps quite successfully with the K&K Pure Western Mini pickups (including LRBaggs, UltraSound, DTAR, Fishman, and Highlander)

Some folks report more bass response with 3rd party preamps than with the K&K ones, and if it's so, just tweak the bass control back a bit. I own both K&K and 3rd party preamps, and they sound fabulous with all of them, without wiring any special cables or putting electronic impedance matching parts in my preamp inputs (or cable outputs).

You want the Pure Western mini not the old style Pure Western (it was far too bassy).

K&K builds internal pickups with preamps, internal without preamp, and internal with mic/pickup combinations (with internal or external blender/preamps).

[Kabalan]

yes.
the mini with any outside preamp, works great

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by MGuts

I just went and played a D-35 that I'm going to be buying as soon as my amp sells.

The guy in the store recommended a K&K Pure Western. I saw on their website that they also sell preamps. Do I need a preamp to get the guitar to sound best? I don't mean to sound like a dope, but does a preamp go in the guitar, also?

The K&K mini requires a preamp. It will not work without one. However, you may already have a preamp available in an acoustic amp or at a mixing board.

When this question is asked, many folks think "preamp" means one in the guitar or a small box that you plug the guitar (like the K&K preamps) into which in turn plugs into a PA or amp. Well, yes, those are preamps, but they are not the only ones.

If you are plugging into an acoustic amp, for example, your question really becomes, "Do I need a second preamp, i.e., the K&K Pure XLR?"

The K&K signal is passive. While stronger than most passive pickups, that signal is still measured in millivolts - i.e., it is rather weak. In addition, the signal is a high impedance signal and susceptible to degradation and increased noise as it travels down the wire. Once the signal gets to the first gain stage and impedance buffer (aka "preamp") things change. The signal gets boosted and the impedance is changed to low impedance. Afterwards, the signal can travel long distances down a cable without degradation or (too much) added noise.

The K&K signal usually needs equalization adjustments (aka "EQ") to shape the sound to the player's liking and needs and to fit the gear used and the room in which you are playing. EQ circuits (aka filters) are not automatically part of a preamp, but can be.

Another common device used is a direct injection box (aka "DI"). Basic ones simply change the impedance of the passive K&K signal and add no signal strength. This allows the signal to travel down a cable without degradation or noise build up until the signal reaches the preamp. If you are using a DI, you will usually only rely on the preamp on a mixing board or in an amp.

The answer to your original question is "Yes, no, maybe, it depends".

[Ed422]

Originally Posted by sdelsolray

The K&K mini requires a preamp. It will not work without one. However, you may already have a preamp available in an acoustic amp or at a mixing board.

When this question is asked, many folks think "preamp" means one in the guitar or a small box that you plug the guitar (like the K&K preamps) into which in turn plugs into a PA or amp. Well, yes, those are preamps, but they are not the only ones.

If you are plugging into an acoustic amp, for example, your question really becomes, "Do I need a second preamp, i.e., the K&K Pure XLR?"

The K&K signal is passive. While stronger than most passive pickups, that signal is still measured in millivolts - i.e., it is rather weak. In addition, the signal is a high impedance signal and susceptible to degradation and increased noise as it travels down the wire. Once the signal gets to the first gain stage and impedance buffer (aka "preamp") things change. The signal gets boosted and the impedance is changed to low impedance. Afterwards, the signal can travel long distances down a cable without degradation or (too much) added noise.

The K&K signal usually needs equalization adjustments (aka "EQ") to shape the sound to the player's liking and needs and to fit the gear used and the room in which you are playing. EQ circuits (aka filters) are not automatically part of a preamp, but can be.

Another common device used is a direct injection box (aka "DI"). Basic ones simply change the impedance of the passive K&K signal and add no signal strength. This allows the signal to travel down a cable without degradation or noise build up until the signal reaches the preamp. If you are using a DI, you will usually only rely on the preamp on a mixing board or in an amp.

The answer to your original question is "Yes, no, maybe, it depends".

A wee bit pedantic, IMO. The question was "Do I need a preamp".

For the OP:

Short (and accurate) answer, if you are plugging into a decent acoustic amp (Ultrasound, Fishman Loudbox, etc.), no. You don't NEED one. A preamp may or may not improve the sound but it will give you at hand volume and tone controls.

If you are plugging into a mixing board, with a line level input, yes.



I usually plug into my Ultrasound and don't use my preamp (K&K Pure Preamp) and when I do, the controls are typically (almost always) set at 12 o/clock. I setup at the amp and forget it. When I plug into a board, I usually set the controls at 12 o/clock (i.e. at the center of their rotation) and let the person running the board control what goes out. If need be I can change things at the guitar but chances are the person at the board is going to change what goes out if I change what is going in.

Ed

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by Ed422

A wee bit pedantic, IMO. The question was "Do I need a preamp".

Perhaps, but nonetheless accurate.

We don't know what the remainder of the OP's signal chain is, among other things. Without that information, it is difficult to provide a definitive answer to his question.

Your anecdotal information may, or may not, help the OP.

[Ed422]

Originally Posted by sdelsolray

Perhaps, but nonetheless accurate.

We don't know what the remainder of the OP's signal chain is, among other things. Without that information, it is difficult to provide a definitive answer to his question.

Your anecdotal information may, or may not, help the OP.

LOL... as much as yours.

Ed

[alohachris]

Ed,

Sdelsolray answered the OP's question in his usual thorough manner, with a perspective that no one else here ever provides.

So what's up with you? WHo made you the "pedantry police?"

Just let it go and move on with your opinion and we'll all get along here, OK?

It's only when one of us shows how thin our skins really are in this little acoustic club here that the problems arise, capice?

alohachris

[Ed422]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Ed,

Sdelsolray answered the OP's question in his usual thorough manner, with a perspective that no one else here ever provides.

So what's up with you? WHo made you the "pedantry police?"

Just let it go and move on with your opinion and we'll all get along here, OK?

It's only when one of us shows how thin our skins really are in this little acoustic club here that the problems arise, capice?

alohachris

Well excuuu...uuuse me. (ancient SNL reference)

I don't see how his answer helped and there are inaccuracies in his post. I think my answer was much more helpful and to the point, or "pragmatic" if you will. You are welcome to disagree.

Now lets see who capice's ande moves on.

LOL
Ed

[tdrake]

Geez Mguts, way to kick up the beehive with your controversial, inflammatory questions! Now see what you've done?

I've found the sound of my K&K mini to be much improved by a preamp. At least I think it's a preamp. Perhaps it's a burrito, but whatever it is, it makes the pickup sound better.

Get the pickup installed and then get your dealer to loan you a properly matched preamp and see for yourself before you buy one.

And then buy one.

td

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by Ed422

I don't see how [sdelsolray's] answer helped and there are inaccuracies in his post.

Please identify the inaccuracies. I am always interested in learning.

[66strummer]

On a budget? Get the K&K Pure preamp. Cant go wrong for a mere $82. It will help the PWM's tone overall and gives you control of volume, bass, mids and treble. It's a worthwhile investment IMO and will warm up the plugged in sound significantly, at least in my experience. If you want a higher end preamp, you have some pretty technically knowledgeable guys following this thread who can assist on that as well.

[J Patrick]

...i used my K&K through a lot of different preamps, DI's amps and systems over a period of maybe four years......your question has been answered well but i thought i might recommend a few of the least expensive things that worked surprisingly well for me,,,a Behringer active DI for one....i have an Ultra-G which is supposed to for an electric guitar..(they make a more generic model that is nearly identical)...its not very good for electric but its quite good for acoustic pickups...( i think thats an oxymoron).....adds fullness, depth and some warmth with just enough boost to get the K&K over the hump signalwise...it does not provide as much headroom as most standard 9 volt preamps but its sound is more musical than some i've used...of course it has no eq....which brings me to a Boss GE-7 equalizer...it too has somewhat less power than most preamps but it has enough and the graphic eq works pretty well for shaping tone....i've seen a few pros put them in their chain...there are mods for them that clean and juice em up a bit....the other lower cost and less conventional approach is to use a boost pedal thats usually designed for electric guitars....almost every pedal maker has a version of a clean boost...you don't have to turn them up very much so they don't get noisy like you'd think...i can't speak for all of them but the few i've used ( TC Jauernig Luxury Drive and Atomic FET-Boy....an RC Booster which is not that inexpensive,,,a Sparkle Drive...a few others)...i only mention them in the event you may have one around....they're not ideal but i find them effective....a good pickup like the K&K generally just needs a good clean boost so the destination preamp at the soundsystem has something to work with....