12 fret guitars why not?

[vintageparlors]

Originally Posted by bmoney

easy to play...comfortable and the sound oh my the sound! great for both strumming and fingerpicking!

so my question....why doesn't everyone use one? is it just the extended octave in the fretboard? I'm really impressed with them.

My thoughts exactly.

[bmoney]

Originally Posted by DoryDavis

If I had it to do over again I'd get the cutaway, but this guitar was a good deal (used) so I snapped it up.

exactly how i ended up with mine...and why i dont have a CE version....but im itching to get a cutaway...if i dont its not the end of the world...ive never loved a guitar as much as this one...it calls to me to play it

[Von Beerhofen]

My 12 fret is just one flavour amongst the other flavours I have. I do not prefer it but I love it as much as I love the others.

Ludwig

[varmonter]

Originally Posted by Jim Owen

I also love 12 frets. I have 2, both parlor sized. But one of these days, I’d love a Roy Smeck or something similar. I’ve never had a 12 fret slope or dreadnought.

I have a 71 martin d28s. It is all 3 .. slope,Dred and 12 fret.
It is my main gigging guitar. I have a really nice
14 fret adi over Madi Taylor . I hardly ever play
It . Preferring this beat Martin.

[1Charlie]

As an aside, all guitars were 12-fretters until the late '20's-early '30's.

I have two '34 Martin single 0's, one a 12-fretter and the other a 14-fretter.

It is so cool to compare and contrast the way they play and the way they sound.

The 12-fretter is a better fingerstyle guitar, while the 14-fretter is a superior flat-picker, as one might expect.

The 12-fretter needs to be finessed a little if I am going to use a pick. The 14-fretter likes to be played hard.

[Earl49]

Nice summary, Charlie!

[Woolbury]

I have a 000 Collings 12fret, wide 113/16 neck, what a great finger style guitar. Aesthetically, the slot head wide neck, 12 fret just calls out to me, Ill always pick those up when in a store. Primarily a finger style blues guy and the old school look and sound is perfect for me. I occasionally have problems if Im capoed and trying to hit the 12the fret harmonics, can be done, but its quite a bit more acrobatic. My next guitar will be a 00 12 fret, eying a custom koa/cedar beauty that I can't stop thinking about.

[Blind Dog]

I'm looking forward to trying more similar 12 & 14 fretters side by side. Trying a (green) RK 12 fret, beside a 14 fret (opened up) Larrivee & Furch hasn't really enlightened me.

I'm not noticing the 12 fret any more comfortable while finger picking on the couch. I'm 5' 8" and old.

(The RK ooo won't fit in a Martin (D-) 640 case -- body is too long. That surprised me. I had thought it would likely be too sloppy. Really hadn't considered it would not even fit in it.)

[ManyMartinMan]

Because different people require/want different things. What works for one may be a disaster for another. Additionally generalizing about all 12-fretters ( slotted headstock, great sound, scale or other things) just as with all short-scale or all dreads or all 00's is not beneficial. Because everyone gets to choose the guitar(s) that move them.

[capohk]

I'm interested in your OM-28 12 fret model. The norm would be 000-28 for a 12 fret. Is yours one of the Norman Blake models?

[eyesore]

i had a 12 fret model, but it was too limited. sounded great ,nice guitar , but just could reach where i had to ;sometimes.

[Silly Moustache]

Like many I started playing steel string acoustic guitar in the late '60s early '70s.
All you could get we 14 fret dreads or jumbos.

I went through a load of stuff , finally settled on a D35 which I played from '75 until about '96.

I had moved from 12 bar blues in E to flat-picked bluegrass rhythm styles and as my style developed I found the D35 increasingly difficult because I was fluffing hammer-ons and pull- offs.

I was shown a D35-S (12 fret 1 & 7/8" nutwidth) - immediately solved all my problems.

It was a long search for a similar guitar ...took years and a couple of failures.
I was looking for the wider neck - not bothered abut headstocks 12 frets or bridge placements.

In '99 Collings started shipping in guitars to the UK and I bought the second DS2h to come into the UK. Perfection for my hands my stance and my style.

As I got used to my DS2h (12 fret, slotted headstock) Collings version of the 1931 style Martin D2 or D28, I discovered more and more ergonomic advatages over the 14 fret dread design.

* Wider nut and string spacing - good - speeded up my picking and my accuracy.
* Better positioning - less left arm extension.
* Bridge position put my pick right over the sweet spot.
* Better balance sitting or standing (with strap to the heel).
* Slotted headstock - easier to change strings
* Slot-head style meant the tuners were always facing towards me so less wrist twisting when tuning.

Martin had perfected the 00 design in 1898, the 000 in 1902, and the dread in 1916. Everything after 1934 was a compromise.

Martin took a long time to develop the perfect design for a steel strung guitar - from size 2 to the Ditson style Dread. They got it right, they were different sizes for different size venues and styles. Perfect.

Music styles were changing and the guitar was changing from a solo fingerstyle instrument to a rhythm box (see Gibson L-5s etc), to replace the tenor banjo. Martin had tried an archtop which failed so they messed about with their flat tops - and made 14 fret versions from 1929 (the OM - as much like a tenor banjo as they could) to the Dread (1934) and they sold, not to big band rhythm guitarists but people wanted strumming guitars for folk music.

I now have a fair collection of acoustic guitars and all my flat-tops are 12 fretters.

If I need a guitar for closed chording jazzy rhythms I have My Gibson Archtop.
I don't need to play above the 12th fret for my normal style.

Let's look at some of the other coments made :

1. 14 fret more focussed/projecting .....Questionable - guitars differ one from another, but I'm happy to test any of mone agains any of yours. Unproven.

2. String changes take longer. Only if you are unfamiliar with the method.

see this for advice (n.b. - not a speed test: for advice.

3. Chording above 12t fret. Why? can't you find them below the 12th? 12 fret gutars can limit chords before the 12th because of neck width, but - if you want to play up three - IK - get the rght kind of guitar - and archtop or and electric.

4. 16.67% more frets .. no, they are all still there - 19 or 20 of them, but how much body volume do you lose ? In fact neither of these are important.

5. Good for fingerstyle, well the 00 and 000 are ideal, the 000 is a crossover and the dread is best for flat-picking - that is the design featre of Martins but you do what you want -it'll work.

6. Cost more for less ? Invalid statement.

7. Limiting for slide.....Mmmm I use a National Estralita which replaced mt Style -O these are ther favoured instruments for any slide blues players - no-one seems to have complaed about the 12th fret to body, and seriously the sound quality above the 12th is questionable. BTW -someone mentions the Martin Simpson Bourgeois...ever seen him play slide? Think about it.

8. This one tickled me - 12 fretters are made by extending the upper bout ...." Wha? So Martin developed the 12 fret designs from about 1833 on, and thern compromised the styles in 1929-34. In what was dod they work backwards to undeasign the 14 fret to the 12th ?

We are very lucky to have availability of more makes, styles and dimensions than ever before. I've had lots of folks question my 12 fretters ...until they tried them ...not for five minutes ... try one for a week. You'll discover that Martin got it right first time.

Do you REALLY want a guitar that was designed to suit a tenor banjo player? (See Perry Bechtel) and he ddn't even buy the OM!

[The Bard Rocks]

"Do you REALLY want a guitar that was designed to suit a tenor banjo player?" (Silly Moustache)

To answer your question, yes, I suppose I do.

"Why?" will be your next question. I'll answer that too. With a 12 fret I find my left arm feeling a bit cramped (unlike many others who play them). That's not a big deal, but amounts to a minor annoyance I deal with each time I pick one up. Where I feel limited is when I use a capo. Very little of my playing goes above where the neck meets the body (go too far above this and notes fail to ring as well and start sounding less vibrant) but when a capo is added, the real estate that is left suddenly becomes scarce.

Addressing the question of better sound and/or better projection, I have found too many variables to draw any personal conclusion there. I do prefer the looks of the more rounded upper bout that you can get with them. And yes, I have owned and still own a number of 12 frets, along with 13 and 14s. Even the 13 feels like a more playable neck to me than a 12 does, so for now anything new will be at least the big. If physical ailments start to attack me, as they might, I will adjust and do whatever I need to keep playing, including going back to 12 fretters.

And, yes, I love slotheads. Changing strings on them is no harder in the long run. A bit harder to thread though, but easier winding; it's a wash for me.

[bmoney]

is it wierd i feel this 12 fretter has made me a better player?

is it a crutch? or...

[Orfeas]

Loved a Taylor Fall LTD with Macassar ebony and 12 fret neck. Was a lovely instrument. That's the only experience I have.