Almost returned a killer guitar over this....

[JP Richardson]

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky

Vermicelli!!!

Isn’t he a famous opera singer?

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by JP Richardson

Isn’t he a famous opera singer?

I thought it was pasta...

[guitar george]

Originally Posted by devellis

If the tone is great, intonation is great, action is great, those are all things that could change if you replace the saddle. If any of these need to be dialed in further with your current arrangement, then I'd go for the new saddle. But if you feel they're all good now, maybe just stick with the arrangement you have. Perfect, after all is the enemy of Excellent.

Originally Posted by gfspencer

It is fine with me if the OP wants to keep a ebony shim. (If it ain't broke don't fix it.) I wouldn't shim a saddle but that's just me. Besides, I'm probably obsessive compulsive.

You wouldn't shim a saddle, but if the saddle is already shimmed, and sounds as described by devillis, would you replace it?

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by bluetweed

.125 is 8/64 .135 is 8.6/64 .145 is 9.3/64

I really doubt if your action is that high. Its best to get a side view with a really good ruler. Most people have a real hard time reading thousandths with feeler gauges. Even using a vernier caliper is hard for most people as its takes a learned skill and time to use one properly. Need any help PM as I can help. I have been measuring anything you can think of for years and I also calibrated measuring equipment for 20 years in a past job.

Haha I’m an engineer so I’m good with measurements lol. I just grossly overestimated....the action just “felt” higher in my memory.

000-28 is .085” low E, and .075” high E.

D-18 is higher at .105” low E and .090” high E.

[mattcran]

I thought you were loving the sound from the beginning and were stressing over a fine crack in the herringbone seam? Is this a different guitar? What ever happened with the defect decision?

[docwatsonfan]

Originally Posted by Shades of Blue

Haha I’m an engineer so I’m good with measurements lol. I just grossly overestimated....the action just “felt” higher in my memory.

000-28 is .085” low E, and .075” high E.

D-18 is higher at .105” low E and .090” high E.

can you give us a " good " measurement of the cardboard shim

just curious..... how much that measured, and the ebony shim too...

ps.....I'm really really good with measurements.... tool and die maker here

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by mattcran

I thought you were loving the sound from the beginning and were stressing over a fine crack in the herringbone seam? Is this a different guitar? What ever happened with the defect decision?

Same guitar. Decided to keep with the crack, and raise the action. The crack is pretty minuscule.

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by docwatsonfan

can you give us a " good " measurement of the cardboard shim

just curious..... how much that measured, and the ebony shim too...

ps.....I'm really really good with measurements.... tool and die maker here

Haha much respect.

I took the shim and sanded down from .100" to .060-.070" (roughly). I never measured the cardboard shim, but it was roughly half the thickness of the finished ebony shim, so say .030-.040".

You'll have to forgive me. I didn't pull out the calipers when doing all this. I just preferred to go by feel.

Originally Posted by guitar george

You wouldn't shim a saddle, but if the saddle is already shimmed, and sounds as described by devillis, would you replace it?

If shimmed, I prefer the shim glued to the base of the saddle. Regardless, the only time you actually "need" to replace a shim is in the case of a fairly thick shim in shallow saddle slot. If the saddle is raised too high and/or poorly fitted, it can tend to tip forward. A thin ebony or rosewood shim in a reasonably deep slot would cause no practical issues.

[bluetweed]

Originally Posted by Shades of Blue

Haha I’m an engineer so I’m good with measurements lol. I just grossly overestimated....the action just “felt” higher in my memory.

000-28 is .085” low E, and .075” high E.

D-18 is higher at .105” low E and .090” high E.

good action on the 000-28

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by bluetweed

good action on the 000-28

Agreed! It plays and sounds SOOO much better now. I was a little iffy on it after I put the ebony shim in because it "seemed" high, but then I pulled the D-18 out and realized how much higher the action on the D-18 is.

[mickthemiller]

First, I always take the strings off a new or used guitar and replace with new. In doing so I take out the saddle as I almost always lower the action to my taste. So if there are any shims under there I spot them straight away. Second. I have used all manner of things to shim a saddle for a quick fix. Plastic (used credit cards are good), cardboard, aluminium foil (I fold this to the desired thickness and find it beds down to a very nice fit). I can't say I have heard a difference with any shim I've used. I do however think that getting the bottom of the saddle perfectly straight and flat makes a world of a difference. I've seen videos of luthiers sand down a saddle free hand, which I think is crazy. Only by sanding against a straightedge will you ever have a chance of getting a flat straight bottom on a saddle.

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by mickthemiller

First, I always take the strings off a new or used guitar and replace with new. In doing so I take out the saddle as I almost always lower the action to my taste. So if there are any shims under there I spot them straight away. Second. I have used all manner of things to shim a saddle for a quick fix. Plastic (used credit cards are good), cardboard, aluminium foil (I fold this to the desired thickness and find it beds down to a very nice fit). I can't say I have heard a difference with any shim I've used. I do however think that getting the bottom of the saddle perfectly straight and flat makes a world of a difference. I've seen videos of luthiers sand down a saddle free hand, which I think is crazy. Only by sanding against a straightedge will you ever have a chance of getting a flat straight bottom on a saddle.

I will say that I can't fully attribute the increase in volume and tone to the ebony vs cardboard shim. I did raise the action, so that could be 95% of the equation. However, it could be my imagination, but the guitar doesn't sound as muted. The difference in the snappiness of the guitar is so much better.

Regardless of the culprit, I've got a new bone saddle in route and I will install during the next string change...

[docwatsonfan]

Originally Posted by Shades of Blue

Haha much respect.

I took the shim and sanded down from .100" to .060-.070" (roughly). I never measured the cardboard shim, but it was roughly half the thickness of the finished ebony shim, so say .030-.040".

You'll have to forgive me. I didn't pull out the calipers when doing all this. I just preferred to go by feel.

forgiven
it's just that I use cardboard when I shim a saddle, and just curious how thick yours was

I use the back of those little free note pads you get after you donate to charities and such

they are about 1/64 th, two is all I've ever needed
my 2001 D28 has one or two, and it is killer, improved the tone 100%

[Shades of Blue]

Update:

So I got a new saddle and sanded it to the same height as the current saddle with ebony shim.

OMG you guys...sounds even more amazing now. I can’t even describe the amount of difference I’m hearing bc it is immense.

Let’s say on a scale of 1-10, that the tone of the guitar with the cardboard shin was a 6, the ebony shim went to 8, but the saddle alone takes it to a 10. That’s how happy I am with the guitar now.