Talk to me about guitar tops for fingerstyle...

[GHS]

My 000-15m is my go to with steel strings.

[mercy]

What are many are confusing is sound and performance. Any guitar can be played excellently but it doesnt mean that guitar will sound good. Look at TE, I think his guitar sounds terrible. If I got a guitar like that Id take it to a tech to fix. I know he chooses that guitar cause its dead in the first place and sets it ultra low for the gymnastics he performs.
And of course there are different ways to play with your fingers. If you play blues and rags you want one sound, old time, fingerstyle, frailing, strumming etc you will want different things as well. I like a bright sound that emphasizes the melody with lots of sustain and overtones.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by The Bard Rocks

Boy, the OP isn't getting the answer he anticipated is he? The fact is, any will work well (you can add Cedar, Redwood and Port Orford Cedar to the list, along with the various European spruces... then there are certain hardwoods....). It depends upon the size of the guitar, how it is built, the particular piece of wood, and, to some degree, the combination of woods chosen.

And we all have seen fingerpickers do a wonderful job on the "wrong" guitars.

I was trying to see if there was a general consensus, but it seems it's whatever "floats your boat", lol. Too many other variables.

[ukejon]

Originally Posted by TBman

I was trying to see if there was a general consensus, but it seems it's whatever "floats your boat", lol. Too many other variables.

Consensus on AGF? Now that is funny!

[Erithon]

As others have stated, the builder will affect the final result far more than the soundboard wood. On a boutique - or, sometimes, a special custom factory -
build a good luthier will work with that particular top set, coaxing out the optimal sound and responsiveness from it. A standard factory guitar produced to specs will not be able to do this because the specs not designed around individual wood, but an average: depending on how all the factors come together, some builds will be exceptional, some duds, and most will hit the average the manufacturer is aiming for (an average which, I should note, is quite good: most Martins, Taylors, etc. are very well-made instruments!). In this case, when the soundboards are all built to identical specs, the choice of material may be a bigger factory since Sitka, Engelmann, Red "Adirondack," European ("German," "Italian," "Swiss," "Alpine," "Carpathian," "Bosnian," etc.) and Lutz all sanded to the same thickness, etc. will not respond the same way.

Let me give you an example. I myself play fingerstyle on a 00 sized guitar with a Adirondack Spruce top, build in the last decade. While this wood features on many vintage guitars (i.e. Martin) and you never hear anyone complaining about a lack of responsiveness, you do - or at least I do - hear a lot of preferences for Engelmann, etc. over Adirondack in modern fingerstyle guitars. There are exceptions, but that seems to me to be the trend. Does that mean Engelmann is superior to Adirondack for fingerstyle? The old Martins suggest not, but there nevertheless are measurable differences in cellulose concentration between the subspecies of Spruces (though these are considerably less than the differences between, say, Spruce and Cedar) and perhaps if the Martin factory had been located in a different part of the country they would have used a different variety of Spruce. (Caveat: these measurable differences are general averages. A given set of Sitka, for example, may be closer to the European average than the Sitka average.)
Given the differences between subspecies, Adirondack might not be the best choice in a smaller-body factory build, but if the builder is experienced enough to understand how to voice it properly it can be an excellent fingerstyle top as my guitar and many others demonstrate. I've read that, especially on smaller-bodied guitars, it can be challenging to bring out Adirondack's bass without losing the trebles; this is why experiences comes into to play when working a set of wood not only to reach its tonal potential but also optimize its responsiveness. At the end of the day every piece of wood is unique and what the builder does with it matters more than its general properties.

If you want to read more, Ervin Somogyi has an interesting article on this: http://www.esomogyi.com/tonewoods.html See the section "Spruces and Cedars."
I'm sure that not every builder agrees with him, but his reasoning is worth a read.

[SongwriterFan]

Originally Posted by TBman

In your opinion as a finger style player, which do you prefer?

Spruce - Englemann, Sitka, Adirondack, Lutz?

First I would want the most responsive top I could get. That has far more to do with how thin the top is and how it's braced than it does the actual species of the top, IMO.

A Martin Authentic with an Adi top is going to be very responsive and would make a great fingerstyle guitar, IMO.

However, Adi is a lot "drier" in its sound that Sitka, IMO.

So in a lot of ways, I'd prefer a Sitka top. But only if I could get it with just as responsive a top.

[dkstott]

Based upon my experience, stay away from Koa Topped guitars... The wood seems to be too stiff to be properly activated.

It's a toss up for me whether I prefer Cedar or Spruce. Both have redeeming qualities for fingerstyle playing. Spruce can be a bit brighter than Cedar.

So, a lot of the decision making has to involve what style of music you play.

Or, buy one of each....

[Methos1979]

Mahogany
Cedar
Italian spruce
Englemenn
Sitka
Lutz


Adirondak

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by dkstott

Based upon my experience, stay away from Koa Topped guitars... The wood seems to be too stiff to be properly activated.

Whoa boss, I could not disagree more. My all Koa K22 is like mahogany on steroids. Lots of balance, warmth, and what I call a crystalline high end. In the right builder hands, I believe it's a great option. For other tops I have Sitka, Engelmann, mahogany, Adirondack, cedar, and carbon fiber, a great spice rack.

[ukejon]

Originally Posted by dkstott

Based upon my experience, stay away from Koa Topped guitars... The wood seems to be too stiff to be properly activated.

It's a toss up for me whether I prefer Cedar or Spruce. Both have redeeming qualities for fingerstyle playing. Spruce can be a bit brighter than Cedar.

So, a lot of the decision making has to involve what style of music you play.

Or, buy one of each....

Don't agree about Koa, although finding a great koa topped guitar can take some searching. Darrell Scott sure made koa sound good:

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Methos1979

Mahogany
Cedar
Italian spruce
Englemenn
Sitka
Lutz


Adirondak

Any other comments other than the order and spacing? Adi is your least desirable? Thanks.

[Daddyo]

The builder's approach and bracing is more important than the top wood. Maybe if a builder made identical models with different top woods, this debate wood be more important. Engleman vs Italian? The difference is more likely because the builder approached the construction with a more expensive Italian spruce top differently than another spruce top.

[JayBee1404]

My cedar-topped Lowden O-25 sounds stellar when fingerpicked.

[HotRodx14]

+1 for Cedar.

My Cedar/Hog Taylor 512 is a fantastic fingerstyle guitar. It doesn't take much to get cedar moving and it responds a lot better to lighter playing than my other Taylors (with Sitka tops) have.

[Methos1979]

Originally Posted by TBman

Any other comments other than the order and spacing? Adi is your least desirable? Thanks.

Sure, Barry. Here's my thoughts on why I chose the way I did:

Mahogany - Dry and woody, an all-hog guitar when made by a builder that builds light guitars with excellent resonance, this wood combo is perfect for my style of delicate fingerstyle playing.
Cedar - Very warm and mellow. Note that this wood is NOT good for my style of playing (fingertips, no nails), but it definitely is quick to resonate with light playing
Italian spruce - I don't have a lot of experience with this wood top but the best guitar I ever played with was a Santa Cruz F Custom with an Italian top and cocobolo back and sides. That guitar still haunts me. That's the one that got away.
Englemenn - I've owned a few guitars with this top wood and each one was a fingerstyle delight.
Sitka - Just an everyday, all-around good wood for, well, everything, fingerstyle included.
Lutz - I don't have much experience with Lutz which is why I included it at the bottom.


Adirondak - Adi for me is just too stiff when new. It's a better wood for heavy strumming as it takes a lot to get it going so it's great for headroom. That said, if it's old and broken in it can be a wonderful fingerstyle wood.