Bridge pins: Why?

[fazool]

I love the elegant simplicity of a pinless bridge. Taylor used to use them and I never understood why they abandoned that.

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by ManyMartinMan

Could being the operative word here. I did see that there is an offer presented herein for individuals to test, evaluate and report on the Power Pins. While I don't like the appearance of the Power Pins once installed, I would be interested in a thorough evaluation of the pins. Someone who would be willing and able to install the product and evaluate them based on the before/after (A/B) of the tone and sonic qualities of the same guitar and strings with and without the Power Pins. Recorded evidence and even dB metering would be nice.

I installed a set on a Taylor 522e 12 fret about 3 months ago and felt the Power Pins improved the sustain and clarity. The ease of changing strings was nice. I sold the guitar with the Power Pins recently and I have another set. I'll put them on another guitar in my collection, probably either my K22 or 812. The look is fine to me.

[Steadfastly]

To my thinking, the pinless bridge has more straight line stress on it than a bridge with pins that would lead to premature bridge failure. Does this make sense or am I out in left field with my analysis?

[ac2300]

Originally Posted by ManyMartinMan

Could being the operative word here. I did see that there is an offer presented herein for individuals to test, evaluate and report on the Power Pins. While I don't like the appearance of the Power Pins once installed, I would be interested in a thorough evaluation of the pins. Someone who would be willing and able to install the product and evaluate them based on the before/after (A/B) of the tone and sonic qualities of the same guitar and strings with and without the Power Pins. Recorded evidence and even dB metering would be nice.

We are hoping to get 3 testers that have the interest and equipment to do an in depth evaluation , as you mentioned. We are still taking in offers from members to participate in the testing, will make a decision late next week. AC

[CycleBob]

Not surprisingly this topic has been raised on the forum before. For example here:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=179771

Some pros and cons of pinless bridges I hadn't thought of are raised.

Edit: a more recent thread with some pictures of the Elliot design pinless bridge:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...=348607&page=3

[Alan Carruth]

I'm not sure which forum it was on, but there were postings a while ago that included stress diagrams of both pinned and pinless bridges. There was some added column stress in the pinned bridge, but otherwise there was no real difference: the pinless bridge did not have higher stress along the back edge, and should not start to peel up sooner. The pins, of course, do help keep body and soul together once the peeling starts, at the cost of more distortion in both the top and the bridge, which makes the repair harder.

If you use the Elliot style of pinless bridge it's even easier to remove and replace the strings than it is on a pinned bridge, without the little parts to lose.

[Hurricane Ramon]

Loaded question , there's going to be fur flyin here - that said I don't care what others may think :

Brass Pins work for me on both my Dreads . They sound great I get super compliments on it's sound - big time clear bass - mids & highs - She shimmers and shines .

String changing is never an issue like with those nasty pins when on stage and you need to change them fast when you bust one .

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=230187

Had them now for over 10 years - check the wear marks .




EZ :

HR

[Hurricane Ramon]

Originally Posted by ac2300

We are hoping to get 3 testers that have the interest and equipment to do an in depth evaluation , as you mentioned. We are still taking in offers from members to participate in the testing, will make a decision late next week. AC

Hello ac2300 :

I'm sold on stuff like your power pins even if I have not tried them .

The brass pins I have on my Dread came with a JLD Bridge DR. I ordered a year or so after I bought it . I had no issues with my Dread's top that merited the Bridge Dr.

I had seen one ( JLD ) put on a bowed topped Takamine Dread the fix was amazing how it brought down the action but more importantly was the sound - it cause a over all improvement in sound quality and volume , that impressed me .

I asked a lot of questions that day to the sales rep. who installed those pins and Bridge Dr. He said those pins always always make a louder sounding guitar even with out the Bridge Dr. this was at least 6 years before I had a little miracle happen that allowed me to return to guitar after 36 years of praying for it to happen .

When I ( after a year of practicing ) got my new first guitar I put those brass pins on for the sound enhancement and it worked .The Bridge Dr. is there as a preventative measure for bowing cause I use 13'a mediums .

If you had a set with one of those designed to fit my Bridge DR. ( one is needed to fasten the Bridge Dr. to the brass pin to work right ) I'd probably get a set .

In my pic you can see how beat up those brass pins have become since I put them in over 10 years ago .

[IMG][/IMG]

My respects to you and your product .

EZ :

HR

I have a beginner question if I may.
Physics dictates that adding mass to the soundboard means more energy from the strings is required to set it moving.
Why does adding brass pins and the like not adversely affect the sound/function of the guitar?
(I must say I like the look and practicality of power Pins).

[printer2]

Originally Posted by xtjohn

I have a beginner question if I may.
Physics dictates that adding mass to the soundboard means more energy from the strings is required to set it moving.
Why does adding brass pins and the like not adversely affect the sound/function of the guitar?
(I must say I like the look and practicality of power Pins).

Pent up energy in the brass.

[stormin1155]

Originally Posted by Alan Carruth

I'm not sure which forum it was on, but there were postings a while ago that included stress diagrams of both pinned and pinless bridges. There was some added column stress in the pinned bridge, but otherwise there was no real difference: the pinless bridge did not have higher stress along the back edge, and should not start to peel up sooner. The pins, of course, do help keep body and soul together once the peeling starts, at the cost of more distortion in both the top and the bridge, which makes the repair harder.

If you use the Elliot style of pinless bridge it's even easier to remove and replace the strings than it is on a pinned bridge, without the little parts to lose.

I find this very interesting. I always considered pinless bridges a flawed design because I just assumed there was added tension on the bridge making it more prone to peal off.

The Elliot design is quite brilliant, and looks elegant too.

[jljohn]

Originally Posted by guitar george

Yes, with pins the main pull is inside the guitar up against the bridge plate. The only way the bridge could pull off, with a pinned bridge, is if all the ball ends of the strings and all the pins pulled up through all the pin holes at the same time which is impossible because they would not fit through the holes together. The pull of the strings may cause the bridge to tilt forward and become unglued at the back, but, there is no danger of the bridge actually pulling off.

This right here is the reason we won't have pinless bridges on all guitars in the future. Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't almost all early guitars of the pinless design (i.e. classical type bridge with gut strings). Heavier and metal strings almost require pins to change where the tensions lie on the top and the bridge of the guitar. This is not a new design, and makers moved away from it a long time ago!

[Tico]

Tradition maybe.

But I just though of a difference that may be significant.

With bridge pins the brass rings at the end of the strings pull perpendicular to the soundboard, setting the soundboard in motion in that direction.
With holes in the bridge instead of pins the string pulls parallel to the soundboard, setting the soundboard in motion 90 degrees away from the best direction.

I'd guess perpendicular is better because the soundboard vibrating to push air AWAY from the guitar would produce better volume, projection, bass, tone, etc.

I gots no links, no proof, no white papers, just one tiny brain reasoning away.

[Ed-in-Ohio]

Originally Posted by Tico

Tradition maybe...snip...

Truth be told, this is likely the most accurate reason for so many "desired" specs...

• pins vs. pinless bridge
• nut vs. zero fret
• traditional neck join ("$$$ neck reset") vs. bolt-on neck
• Nitrocellulose lacquer vs. other well applied finishes

All of these things make an acoustic guitar more desirable to the market regardless of how they effect the tone or structural effectiveness of the guitar.

[ac2300]

Originally Posted by Hurricane Ramon

Hello ac2300 :

I'm sold on stuff like your power pins even if I have not tried them .

The brass pins I have on my Dread came with a JLD Bridge DR. I ordered a year or so after I bought it . I had no issues with my Dread's top that merited the Bridge Dr.

I had seen one ( JLD ) put on a bowed topped Takamine Dread the fix was amazing how it brought down the action but more importantly was the sound - it cause a over all improvement in sound quality and volume , that impressed me .

I asked a lot of questions that day to the sales rep. who installed those pins and Bridge Dr. He said those pins always always make a louder sounding guitar even with out the Bridge Dr. this was at least 6 years before I had a little miracle happen that allowed me to return to guitar after 36 years of praying for it to happen .

When I ( after a year of practicing ) got my new first guitar I put those brass pins on for the sound enhancement and it worked .The Bridge Dr. is there as a preventative measure for bowing cause I use 13'a mediums .

If you had a set with one of those designed to fit my Bridge DR. ( one is needed to fasten the Bridge Dr. to the brass pin to work right ) I'd probably get a set .

In my pic you can see how beat up those brass pins have become since I put them in over 10 years ago .

[IMG][/IMG]

My respects to you and your product .

EZ :

HR

Thank you, much appreciated!