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  #61  
Old 02-03-2017, 12:14 PM
OliveCorduroy OliveCorduroy is offline
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I am just starting to learn the fretboard. I know the notes on the E and A strings primarily because I needed to know them to find the root notes when I was learning barre chords. Now I am starting to learn triads on the top four strings so now I find myself having to learn where the root notes are for these thus learning where the notes are on these strings. In a sense, I am learning where the notes are while learning something else - killing two birds with one stone so to speak.
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  #62  
Old 02-03-2017, 12:48 PM
Wengr Wengr is online now
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I have seen too many students obsess over learning the note names on the fretboard by rote memorization. To the point that it robs time from concepts that imo are far more valuable.
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  #63  
Old 02-03-2017, 02:43 PM
polarred21 polarred21 is offline
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Originally Posted by Wengr View Post
. To the point that it robs time from concepts that imo are far more valuable.
Curious, which concepts would you be referring too. Maybe I need to learn them
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  #64  
Old 02-03-2017, 07:40 PM
Pitar Pitar is offline
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Originally Posted by MC5C View Post
I sent this thread to a friend of mine who is doing her doctorate on this exact subject - why is it so hard to learn how to play guitar, in particular, why is it so hard to make the transition from playing guitar to playing well all over the neck in an intuitive manner. She likens it to playing jazz, which does demand that facility. She has a blog going about her research. I asked her today, in relation to this thread, "why is it so hard to learn the fretboard" and she said we (meaning the community of researchers who are actively trying to understand the cognitive side of the question) honestly don't know. By "learn the fretboard" I don't mean know the name of every string and every fret, I knew that 30 years ago. I mean internalize it so I intuitively know what note to play where, and understand it's relationship to key, chord, harmony, and melody. I can't do that worth squat...

https://thescientificguitarist.wordp...ach-to-guitar/
Your statement (my bold) is something I can do and it's called developing the ear, or inner ear, such that you reach a musical intuition relative to whatever instrument you've developed it on. I can hear in my head what I want to play next, know where it is on the fretboard and thoughtlessly play it.

It's an evolution of the ear and I cannot think of anything more important than pro-active ear-training.

My method of learning was strictly an exercise in playing what I heard. The latter was the cognitive part of it. The importance of the former (listening) only occurred to me much later. At that point I'd already developed intimate knowledge of the fretboard up to the 5th fret, and had become involved in playing barre chords to a level as mechanically adept as my command of open chords. Now I play barre chords almost as a preference because it's like a novelty that hasn't worn off yet. But, the by-product is development of the ear for the upper registers of the neck.

Mechanically learning how to play notes, without equal emphasis placed on listening intently to the sounds achieved and remembering them, is a near-useless exercise.

I don't need to know the names of anything or understand the theory behind them with an experienced and knowledgeable ear guiding the mechanical skills developed in step with them. I can say I do know the names of the notes but that knowledge and $1.50 will get me a decent cup of coffee.
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  #65  
Old 05-22-2017, 03:59 PM
Don W Don W is offline
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I am using a book by Noad "solo guitar"....I resisted learning to read notation for 50 years..this works. I spend a small portion of my fingerstyle lesson going over it...a string at a time! It is going to help a lot for when I am done with lessons...if that ever happens. So glad this roadblock has been overcome..I actually like it. When I was younger I didn't want to learn this...I wanted to play!! Now that I can play, it just enhances everything.
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  #66  
Old 05-22-2017, 04:18 PM
s0cks s0cks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitar View Post
Your statement (my bold) is something I can do and it's called developing the ear, or inner ear, such that you reach a musical intuition relative to whatever instrument you've developed it on. I can hear in my head what I want to play next, know where it is on the fretboard and thoughtlessly play it.

It's an evolution of the ear and I cannot think of anything more important than pro-active ear-training.

My method of learning was strictly an exercise in playing what I heard. The latter was the cognitive part of it. The importance of the former (listening) only occurred to me much later. At that point I'd already developed intimate knowledge of the fretboard up to the 5th fret, and had become involved in playing barre chords to a level as mechanically adept as my command of open chords. Now I play barre chords almost as a preference because it's like a novelty that hasn't worn off yet. But, the by-product is development of the ear for the upper registers of the neck.

Mechanically learning how to play notes, without equal emphasis placed on listening intently to the sounds achieved and remembering them, is a near-useless exercise.

I don't need to know the names of anything or understand the theory behind them with an experienced and knowledgeable ear guiding the mechanical skills developed in step with them. I can say I do know the names of the notes but that knowledge and $1.50 will get me a decent cup of coffee.
I certainly need to make the effort to listen more intently to my playing. It's so easy to get caught up in the mechanics that we almost forget to listen.

When I shift my focus to the sounds I'm creating I tend to play a lot better, or rather, more musically than mechanically. I notice, for example, that my ear often ignores the bass notes in favour of the melody, but when I actually listen for the bass notes I can play them a lot more cleanly and in time. This significantly enhances the sound of the entire tune including the melody. Making it more clean and tight.

As for developing an ear. I think this is going to take me a lot of time. I'd love to be at that level of just effortlessly knowing where I need to be next based on nothing but sound.
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  #67  
Old 05-22-2017, 05:49 PM
TheChicagoTodd TheChicagoTodd is offline
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Originally Posted by fazool View Post
I found a program called metal method (for electric) and liked their system as well.


Everyone has a "system" but, in reality its just memorization and I found that any "system" still requires rote repetition
Metal method? Is that that the ol' Doug Marks stuff? Wow...blast from the past.....I think I may have some if his old stuff around.

Todd in Chicago

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  #68  
Old 05-22-2017, 07:01 PM
amyFB amyFB is offline
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Default How to learn notes on the fretboard

I think how to learn will depend on the way you think about the music you play.

If you think note names then memorizing name and position is just memoriZation of 14 spaces along each of six strings.

I think in intervals or play by ear , so the note names aren't so much interesting except as place markers for a key.



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  #69  
Old 05-23-2017, 09:09 AM
815C 815C is offline
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Here is my approach (you can get the PDF HERE)...

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  #70  
Old 05-23-2017, 04:19 PM
paulp1960 paulp1960 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitar View Post
Your statement (my bold) is something I can do and it's called developing the ear, or inner ear, such that you reach a musical intuition relative to whatever instrument you've developed it on. I can hear in my head what I want to play next, know where it is on the fretboard and thoughtlessly play it.

It's an evolution of the ear and I cannot think of anything more important than pro-active ear-training.

My method of learning was strictly an exercise in playing what I heard. The latter was the cognitive part of it. The importance of the former (listening) only occurred to me much later. At that point I'd already developed intimate knowledge of the fretboard up to the 5th fret, and had become involved in playing barre chords to a level as mechanically adept as my command of open chords. Now I play barre chords almost as a preference because it's like a novelty that hasn't worn off yet. But, the by-product is development of the ear for the upper registers of the neck.

Mechanically learning how to play notes, without equal emphasis placed on listening intently to the sounds achieved and remembering them, is a near-useless exercise.

I don't need to know the names of anything or understand the theory behind them with an experienced and knowledgeable ear guiding the mechanical skills developed in step with them. I can say I do know the names of the notes but that knowledge and $1.50 will get me a decent cup of coffee.
I admire your ability to analyse how you taught yourself to recognise pitch and the fact that you did it through brute force and determination.

Years ago before I took a 10 year break from guitar I was learning loads of scales and the modes thinking it would make me a cool lead guitarist. It did nothing for my playing. You need to develop your ears and for me it is the hardest part of teaching yourself to be a musician.
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  #71  
Old 05-23-2017, 04:59 PM
FwL FwL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulp1960 View Post
I admire your ability to analyse how you taught yourself to recognise pitch and the fact that you did it through brute force and determination.

Years ago before I took a 10 year break from guitar I was learning loads of scales and the modes thinking it would make me a cool lead guitarist. It did nothing for my playing. You need to develop your ears and for me it is the hardest part of teaching yourself to be a musician.


Why not use scales and modes to develop your ears?
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