Just how good are those imports?

[jaybones]

Exceptional for the price:

Alvarez (especially Yari, although those are starting to enter the pricey area for me, low 3 figures). My first guitar was an '88 Regent, laminated, but had an adjustable saddle.

Yamaha are generally pretty good for the price point.

Takamine are nice, especially the so called Martin lawsuit guitars.

Epiphone might not be everyone's cup of tea, but the masterbuilts are pretty top notch. And my Gibson-Epiphone PR7ERS, solid TB&S bird's eye maple.

And the Guilds I've played have been pretty nice.

But exceptional to me means more boutique or custom builders.

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by rwmct

I think very few people who are skeptical of the Asian imports really believe that people in these countries can't make great guitars. Most are focused on the fact that they are made to hit a particular price point. While every production guitar probably has a price point in mind, the main reason the imports sell is the fact that they cost less than U.S. made equivalents. So the price point is a critical element in their reason for being. One reason the Eastmans are more accepted, IMO, is that they tend to be a little more expensive, thereby making one think that they probably have a little better materials and standard of workmanship.

One thing I mistrust on a lot of these imports is that they often have a fair amount of bling on them. I don't expect bling on an inexpensive guitar, and when I see it, I immediately think "there is labor and materials that should have gone into basic construction."

I think U.S. made guitars in the $1,500 price range (Gibson J-15, the basic U.S. made Guilds) are strong alternative to the better imports.

We, the buying public, have some great choices out there, though sometimes you have to look around quite a bit to find them in brick and mortar stores.

As far as imports and specifically Eastman is concerned...
You have made a generalized statement that is at least partially inaccurate on a couple of of fronts. First off there are many imports that have very little if any bling on them and the labor and materials are often quite good.
Eastmans are more expensive because the labor and materials are in fact higher quality, it's not a "perception." An Eastman with an Adirondack top and Rosewood is much less expensive than one using the same woods made in the west. Eastman guitars are not made using some of the more refined manufacturing techniques of the west and so they have been known to have "flaws". Eastman has continued to refine the art of making guitars without that technology to the point that these "flaws" have hugely disappeared.
Lastly, the most popular guitars Eastman makes and sells by percentages do not cost $1500....
...they in the $700- $1000 range.
I think the J15 is a great guitar for its price but so is an Eastman E 10 or E 20 D at $1000.

[Dronfield]

Originally Posted by Gmountain

I'm not sure the criteria is exceptional "for the money." It's either exceptional, or it isn't.

I'm sure I could build a guitar and charge someone $1. It might be exceptional for the money, but it still isn't any sort of exceptional guitar.

Hi

Was just my sense of humour - people had decided that they needed to use the word exceptional in their replies, so I thought I would carry on the trend!

My Guild is not an exceptional guitar, but still very good value for money.

Rich

[wailin...]

Lowden, McIlroy, Avalon. Nothing comes close.

[akgas]

My Takamine EF75m-TT is pretty amazing ... for a Japanese guitar lol

[hat]

I have a Stanford PSD20 that is, sound-wise, an exceptional guitar. Fit and finish are just good, with little bling. It is pretty much a direct copy of a D28 - but if you're going to copy something copy the best, huh? I would stand the Stanford imports up against the best to come out of the PacRim. By the way, I picked this guitar up used. I will not buy or order a new PacRim manufactured instrument.
But, here's the thing for me. They are still copies. And, they are one of many 'targeted' marketing products being produced in East Asia. The business culture there is different, with government assistance, questionable 'research' methods, etc., not to mention possible labor issues.
And then, the other side of the coin is this: If I (we) have an appreciation for the craft of guitar making, then we owe it to the ones that are in it for the right reasons ( the art of lutherie, craftsmanship, tradition, etc) to support their business' as we can.

[Toby Walker]

Originally Posted by mercy

When we say import we think Pacific Rim, under $1000. Eastmans are pretty good usually but they cost more than many PR products. It isnt that PR factories cant but the ones Ive played and seen are not exceptional. Some of you have played expensive PR guitars but I havent and they arent in stores to play so they dont apply to our discussion of imports. No doubt if factories in the US built guitars at the prices of PR guitars they wouldnt be exceptional either. As far as you in Europe, really?

Actually, I intended for those Eastman guitars to be included in this post. They are indeed in the stores and while some of them go for over a grand, in my opinion, some of them easily stand up to domestic brands costing over twice as much.

To address the 'PR guitars are just copies of American ones:' Aren't American manufacturers doing the exact same thing? Martin, Gibson, Collings, and many others have been jumping on the 'Depression Era' bandwagon for quite some time now. Collings has been quite successful in replicating those old Stellas, even down to stenciling the brand name on the headstock, and those guitars sound pretty darn good! It only makes sense that their overseas competitors would follow suit, which they have and in doing so, have put out some equally fine products at half the price.

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by Toby Walker

Actually, I intended for those Eastman guitars to be included in this post. They are indeed in the stores and while some of them go for over a grand, in my opinion, some of them easily stand up to domestic brands costing over twice as much.

To address the 'PR guitars are just copies of American ones:' Aren't American manufacturers doing the exact same thing? Martin, Gibson, Collings, and many others have been jumping on the 'Depression Era' bandwagon for quite some time now. Collings has been quite successful in replicating those old Stellas, even down to stenciling the brand name on the headstock, and those guitars sound pretty darn good! It only makes sense that their overseas competitors would follow suit, which they have and in doing so, have put out some equally fine products at half the price.

Anyone who wants to can research the origin of the Dreadnought.
It was C.F. Martin who in response to the musical stylings of a Hawaiian named Major Kealakai developed a larger bodied guitar. That first collaborative take on a larger bodied guitar came to be what we now know as a OOO. Soon after that, Martin and the Oliver Ditson Guitar Company influenced by Hawaiian folk musicians and various tunings that were used to play Hawaiian music, coupled with a desire for an even louder guitar to be used in public performances, designed the first Dreadnought.
So, for what it's worth, while it was C.F. Martin and Oliver Ditson who actually designed the instrument there can be know doubt it was Asian musical influences that inspired it.

[songz]

I have a Recording King ROS-647 that is the equal of any 000-42 (of which it is a copy) I have ever played. To be fair, George Kraushaar, the original owner, did some superb brace work on it. My other guitar is a Pono DS-30 which is pretty close to the HD-28VS I used to own, but Steve Perry worked over the inside of it - it was way overbuilt.

Ron

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by songz

I have a Recording King ROS-647 that is the equal of any 000-42 (of which it is a copy) I have ever played. To be fair, George Kraushaar, the original owner, did some superb brace work on it. My other guitar is a Pono DS-30 which is pretty close to the HD-28VS I used to own, but Steve Perry worked over the inside of it - it was way overbuilt.

Ron

I don't know what year your Pono was built in, but my D20 SP is a very light build on the inside.

[SprintBob]

Based on my experience with an Eastman mandolin, they can produce exceptional instruments at the price points they offer, a LOT of bang for the buck.

The list left off Pono which builds in Idonesia and does final assembly in Hawaii. They remind me of Larivee in terms of value and tone.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by hat

I have a Stanford PSD20 that is, sound-wise, an exceptional guitar. Fit and finish are just good, with little bling. It is pretty much a direct copy of a D28 - but if you're going to copy something copy the best, huh? I would stand the Stanford imports up against the best to come out of the PacRim. By the way, I picked this guitar up used. I will not buy or order a new PacRim manufactured instrument.
But, here's the thing for me. They are still copies. And, they are one of many 'targeted' marketing products being produced in East Asia. The business culture there is different, with government assistance, questionable 'research' methods, etc., not to mention possible labor issues.
And then, the other side of the coin is this: If I (we) have an appreciation for the craft of guitar making, then we owe it to the ones that are in it for the right reasons ( the art of lutherie, craftsmanship, tradition, etc) to support their business' as we can.

The whole 'lutherie, craftsmanship, tradition' thing is no more than a marketing gimmick. It's far too easy to construct an ad with an avuncular elderly chap in an apron, surrounded by woodworking tools and curls of wood off his plane, to create the correct image for the impressionable consumer.
Martin, Gibson, Taylor are huge mass-production businesses, churning out guitars in the tens of thousands. In 2010 C F Martin alone produced just over 67,000 guitars. A CNC machine doesn't know whether it's in Quangzhou or Nazareth PA, and it's worth bearing in mind that the Chinese have thousands of years of experience in musical instrument making. We are the newcomers inheriting their skills!

[Shadowfox]

I voted other for Furch. Technically imports, but not what fits the other descriptions. They are awesome quality instruments for the price.

[mercy]

I suppose what kind of music we like and what kind of sound we like comes into play here. I wouldnt have a Stella or Stella inspired guitar from any mfg or custom builder but thats my ears. Well I take that back, if I played slide a Stella would be just the thing.

[backdoc]

Originally Posted by Gmountain

I think there are some good imports, and maybe some great ones.

No reason to think that they can't build exceptional guitars, but on the other hand, I have not yet heard anyone say they bought a Martin because it was as good as an Eastman, or a Taylor, because it punched above it's weight.

Well, I keep raving about my Yamaha LS6 and every time I play it I am just stunned at how good it feels and sounds. I have both an Eastman and a Martin on the way to me and I'll see. To be honest, I only hope that they feel as good to me as the Yamaha. Every time I go to GC I go in the humidified room and play the $1k-2K Martins (the higher end ones are locked and you need a salesman and I just don't want to do that) but so far nothing has compared to the feel and sound of my $400 Yamaha. In fact, the 000-15 they have there is never going to sell because the strings are about a quarter inch from the frets at the 12th and there is little saddle left to adjust. On top of that, the strings are completely dead.

Now the Martin I am getting is used and both previous owners are regular members here and have raved about it, so I am hoping my trust is not misplaced, but I expect it to be a winner. I may be tonedeaf, and I know I sound like a shill for Yamaha, but that guitar is now MY standard to which everything else has to measure up to. Crazy? Perhaps. I am honestly hoping that the OM-15 on the way kicks the Yammie off that pedestal.