Three Stereo Mic Arrays

[Fran Guidry]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

Nice demo! I'd suggest that the frequency response differences can be remedied by turning your array on its side by 90'. I chosen that as my session go-to and don't have the left-right EQ difference problem any more. You can thank producer/engineer George Massenburg for that tip.

Bob

Hey, Bob. George has a lot of great ideas, like using a vintage U47 for a kick mic!!

What can you say about the benefit of this technique compared to just recording mono?

Fran

[Bob Womack]

Originally Posted by Fran Guidry

Hey, Bob. George has a lot of great ideas, like using a vintage U47 for a kick mic!! What can you say about the benefit of this technique compared to just recording mono?

Fran

I'm not sure I'd put our U47 in front of a kick - it still has the original capsule and they are becoming more rare.

The benefits? When an ensemble walks through my door I often have no idea what part the acoustic will play. Will it have a strong solo intro? Will it have a bridge or intermezzo part that will be pushed up out front? If I record in mono and the guitar gets a solo, I'm stuck trying to reverse-engineer stereo interest for the guitar part. That means having the guitarist double track his performance (and it is amazing how many guitarists simply can't match their own performances) or using a mono-to-stereo plug-in or using ambience tricks. It is much easier to record in a good, reliable stereo pattern that leaves you with all sorts of options. The turned-on-ear pattern gives you the same frequency spectra in both mics, unlike a spaced pair or even a horizontal X-Y pair. If I remember right, George used an X-Y pair at 90' for this. I've got my own pattern. Call it the reverse ORTF. I place a pair of cardioids 7" apart and at 110' using the AKG stereo bar but orient the capsules facing one another. The distance and angle help promote phase coherence, just as in the ORTF. The resultant pickup is spread nicely across the speakers (better than an X-Y) while the center image is strong and the room isn't emphasized too much. It looks like this with a pair of AKG C451B mics:



Once you have your tracks down you can collapse the left and right channels at will to adjust the imaging. You can also choose one mic for mono if you please. I've doubled-tracked parts with this array and panned one performance with the left mic hard left and the right mic center and the other performance with the left mic centered and the right mic far right. That makes the parts HUGE but also more integrated than one mic far left and one mic far right.

Bob

[Mischief]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

I'm not sure I'd put our U47 in front of a kick - it still has the original capsule and they are becoming more rare.

The benefits? When an ensemble walks through my door I often have no idea what part the acoustic will play. Will it have a strong solo intro? Will it have a bridge or intermezzo part that will be pushed up out front? If I record in mono and the guitar gets a solo, I'm stuck trying to reverse-engineer stereo interest for the guitar part. That means having the guitarist double track his performance (and it is amazing how many guitarists simply can't match their own performances) or using a mono-to-stereo plug-in or using ambience tricks. It is much easier to record in a good, reliable stereo pattern that leaves you with all sorts of options. The turned-on-ear pattern gives you the same frequency spectra in both mics, unlike a spaced pair or even a horizontal X-Y pair. If I remember right, George used an X-Y pair at 90' for this. I've got my own pattern. Call it the reverse ORTF. I place a pair of cardioids 7" apart and at 110' using the AKG stereo bar but orient the capsules facing one another. The distance and angle help promote phase coherence, just as in the ORTF. The resultant pickup is spread nicely across the speakers (better than an X-Y) while the center image is strong and the room isn't emphasized too much. It looks like this with a pair of AKG C451B mics:



Once you have your tracks down you can collapse the left and right channels at will to adjust the imaging. You can also choose one mic for mono if you please. I've doubled-tracked parts with this array and panned one performance with the left mic hard left and the right mic center and the other performance with the left mic centered and the right mic far right. That makes the parts HUGE but also more integrated than one mic far left and one mic far right.

Bob

That's a cool method Bob.
A question for you. When selecting one of the two mikes for mono, does one typically stand out as more favorable? If so which mic, the top or bottom and what favorable characteristics does it exhibit over the other?

Cheers

[Bob Womack]

Originally Posted by Mischief

That's a cool method Bob.
A question for you. When selecting one of the two mikes for mono, does one typically stand out as more favorable? If so which mic, the top or bottom and what favorable characteristics does it exhibit over the other?

Cheers

I've never heard much of a predictable quality difference between the two, actually, so I've just made a subjective choice on the spot and haven't tracked which was better.

Bob

[MaurysMusic]

Originally Posted by Mischief

That's a cool method Bob.
A question for you. When selecting one of the two mikes for mono, does one typically stand out as more favorable? If so which mic, the top or bottom and what favorable characteristics does it exhibit over the other?

Cheers

Very interesting thx!!

[Andy Howell]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

I'm not sure I'd put our U47 in front of a kick - it still has the original capsule and they are becoming more rare.

The benefits? When an ensemble walks through my door I often have no idea what part the acoustic will play. Will it have a strong solo intro? Will it have a bridge or intermezzo part that will be pushed up out front? If I record in mono and the guitar gets a solo, I'm stuck trying to reverse-engineer stereo interest for the guitar part. That means having the guitarist double track his performance (and it is amazing how many guitarists simply can't match their own performances) or using a mono-to-stereo plug-in or using ambience tricks. It is much easier to record in a good, reliable stereo pattern that leaves you with all sorts of options. The turned-on-ear pattern gives you the same frequency spectra in both mics, unlike a spaced pair or even a horizontal X-Y pair. If I remember right, George used an X-Y pair at 90' for this. I've got my own pattern. Call it the reverse ORTF. I place a pair of cardioids 7" apart and at 110' using the AKG stereo bar but orient the capsules facing one another. The distance and angle help promote phase coherence, just as in the ORTF. The resultant pickup is spread nicely across the speakers (better than an X-Y) while the center image is strong and the room isn't emphasized too much. It looks like this with a pair of AKG C451B mics:




Bob

I have been using this system recently and I find it far more useful than a spaced pair with my guitar and even better than XY. Aiming at the 12th fret you really don't have to worry about a boomy base from one of the mics. I also find mic placement is also not quite so critical.

One of the best tips I have come across Bob :-)

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

I'm not sure I'd put our U47 in front of a kick - it still has the original capsule and they are becoming more rare.

The benefits? When an ensemble walks through my door I often have no idea what part the acoustic will play. Will it have a strong solo intro? Will it have a bridge or intermezzo part that will be pushed up out front? If I record in mono and the guitar gets a solo, I'm stuck trying to reverse-engineer stereo interest for the guitar part. That means having the guitarist double track his performance (and it is amazing how many guitarists simply can't match their own performances) or using a mono-to-stereo plug-in or using ambience tricks. It is much easier to record in a good, reliable stereo pattern that leaves you with all sorts of options. The turned-on-ear pattern gives you the same frequency spectra in both mics, unlike a spaced pair or even a horizontal X-Y pair. If I remember right, George used an X-Y pair at 90' for this. I've got my own pattern. Call it the reverse ORTF. I place a pair of cardioids 7" apart and at 110' using the AKG stereo bar but orient the capsules facing one another. The distance and angle help promote phase coherence, just as in the ORTF. The resultant pickup is spread nicely across the speakers (better than an X-Y) while the center image is strong and the room isn't emphasized too much. It looks like this with a pair of AKG C451B mics:



Once you have your tracks down you can collapse the left and right channels at will to adjust the imaging. You can also choose one mic for mono if you please. I've doubled-tracked parts with this array and panned one performance with the left mic hard left and the right mic center and the other performance with the left mic centered and the right mic far right. That makes the parts HUGE but also more integrated than one mic far left and one mic far right.

Bob

Very nice, Bob.

This seems to be the identical technique shown as " 6. Vertical Spaced Pair" on the Cakewalk website "10 Microphone Placement Techniques For Acoustic Guitar" page:

https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Kno...coustic-Guitar

[J.R. Rogers]

Really nice demo, Fran. Thank you very much for doing that. To my ears, the H6 mics in XY config are the only ones rendering the highs well and you really need that to do this nice guitar justice. The other two configs need some EQ in the mid/high area to sound better in my opinion.

JR

[Fran Guidry]

If you want to try tweaking the EQ you can download the WAV clips and give it a try.

I'm hoping to follow up with a couple of other configurations, but we won't be home from Hawai`i until July. Meanwhile, we've probably discussed it before but I just got refreshed on the Sound on Sound mic position comparison, a rather exhaustive set of clips available here: http://www.cambridge-mt.com/rs-lmp-acgtr01.htm

Fran