Cedar for Bluegrass?

[Dut4907]

Hello, I think I’m starting to fall in love with cedar topped guitars. Since im guitarless I borrowed my dads Takamine EG330sc guitar and im starting to like how warm sounding the cedar is compared to spruce tops. It sounds like a well broken in 50 year old guitar.
How well do you all think cedar will handle some bluegrass flatpicking? I don’t have a heavy right hand.

I also found the perfect guitar. It’s the Blueridge BR-5060 John Jorgesen Signature model. The guitar has a cedar top, prewar bracing and a large soundhole. I think the back and sides come in rosewood, mahogany or a laminate. Has anyone have any experience with this guitar?

[The Bard Rocks]

Bluegrass players prefer the spruces as they are generally louder when played hard (call it "greater headroom"). They also like dreads for the big body and stronger bass. Some, most, jams will make room for any guitar; others can be persnickety and let you know the "wrong" instrument is not so welcome as you'd hoped.

By all means, get the guitar that speaks to you. You are the one that has to be satisfied, not your friends, but just be aware that there are reasons why they like the guitars that they do.

[HHP]

Martin made a few cedar topped D-28's, the CHD-28. See a few Lowden cedar top D size guitars. Something like that might work well but keep in mind there is a reason they don't get much use in that genre.

[Tony Done]

I wouldn't be optimistic. Good for fingerpicking and slide (I have one for that), but lacking headroom and maybe cutting power for trad bluegrass.

[AHill]

Generally speaking, cedar has more overtones. It's easy to get competing overtones and "overdrive" the guitar if you get aggressive with picking / strumming. I would think that bluegrass wants a more fundamental tone, and something with more undistorted volume than cedar can offer. I think there's a good reason you won't find any notable bluegrass players with a cedar topped guitar.

[Aping Leo]

I took my 714 Cedar/Rosewood to a friends to noodle and wound up in a kitchen with two grassers and their Martins. I don't think I could have heard myself if I dropped the guitar on the floor.

[rokdog49]

There is nothing wrong with Cedar for bluegrass in theory.
In practice, the limitations of headroom and abundance of overtones are not exactly conducive to the application.
My new D18 is killer for bluegrass and strumming fast country stuff.
I finally learned you can't fight city hall.

[noledog]

* The MIJ Taks cedar tops and bracing can handle some flatpickin really well and still have the warm, slightly compressed punch of cedar...I do a bit of it in my live show with an MIJ cedar-topped Tak as well as a D18 and it works nicely. I'm not a blugrasser mind you, I just throw some in the mix because I like it & just enough to fake it LOL! ...love Molly Tuttle and Billy Stings!!

** I can't say for other brands, but I have a ton of experience playing shows with MIJ Taks and they can handle it. That's why renown flatpicker Steve Wariner uses cedar over mahogany on his signature MIJ Takamine.

*** Just a note, I believe the Takamine EG330sc is not an MIJ depending on the year, nor was is it cedar topped, I think it came with solid spruce top and NATO laminate b/s, but Tak does some strange things sometimes so I could be wrong.

Best wishes gettin yo bluegrass on!

eric

[Dut4907]

Appreciate the help.

[PiousDevil]

Originally Posted by noledog

* The MIJ Taks cedar tops and bracing can handle some flatpickin really well and still have the warm, slightly compressed punch of cedar...I do a bit of it in my live show with an MIJ cedar-topped Tak as well as a D18 and it works nicely. I'm not a blugrasser mind you, I just throw some in the mix because I like it & just enough to fake it LOL! ...love Molly Tuttle and Billy Stings!!

** I can't say for other brands, but I have a ton of experience playing shows with MIJ Taks and they can handle it. That's why renown flatpicker Steve Wariner uses cedar over mahogany on his signature MIJ Takamine.

*** Just a note, I believe the Takamine EG330sc is not an MIJ depending on the year, nor was is it cedar topped, I think it came with solid spruce top and NATO laminate b/s, but Tak does some strange things sometimes so I could be wrong.

Best wishes gettin yo bluegrass on!

eric

I think the difference here is the difference between “playing bluegrass” and “playing bluegrass type music in a solo or small group while amplified.” The problem with the cedar top is that, as mentioned, it will likely lack the projection and fundamental clarity required to cut through the mix in a bluegrass jam.

[bigreddog]

I will agree with the OP that cedar tops can sound great. One of the sweetest dreads i've ever played was what i think was an Alvarez MD65 with a cedar top. The tone and playability was sweet, sweet, sweet!

I think the reason that they typically are not used in a bluegrass jam setting is when you begin to "drive" the top, as in really beginning to lay into your strumming for backup, the tone will just "break up" on cedar topped dread. Spruce tops, especiallly Adirondack, tend to "cut" and not "break up" when played hard.

Anyway, that's my two cents. I wish I had purchased that Alvarez when I played it. I think at the time it was $599 w/case. That's been probably 10 yrs ago.

[PiousDevil]

Originally Posted by bigreddog

I will agree with the OP that cedar tops can sound great. One of the sweetest dreads i've ever played was what i think was an Alvarez MD65 with a cedar top. The tone and playability was sweet, sweet, sweet!

I think the reason that they typically are not used in a bluegrass jam setting is when you begin to "drive" the top, as in really beginning to lay into your strumming for backup, the tone will just "break up" on cedar topped dread. Spruce tops, especiallly Adirondack, tend to "cut" and not "break up" when played hard.

Anyway, that's my two cents. I wish I had purchased that Alvarez when I played it. I think at the time it was $599 w/case. That's been probably 10 yrs ago.

I have an MD65. Wonderful guitar, but I have too many guitars and it sits in its case. You anywhere near Maryland?

[posternutbag]

Cedar is a wonderful top material, it can have a beautiful, lush, ringing tone, and it can actually be quite loud. Classical guitars with cedar tops can fill a concert hall with sound unamplified. You can play any genre on any guitar, so if you want to play bluegrass on a cedar topped guitar, go ahead.

All that being said, it isn’t the best choice of bluegrass. There is a reason that big bodied, Spruce topped guitars are the norm in bluegrass. There are really two reasons. The first has to do with where the guitar sits in the mix of a traditional bluegrass lineup, above the bass but lower than the banjo, mandolin and fiddle. You want a clean, crisp dry tone so that you are not competing with the other instruments. The second reason has to do with projection or cut. Typically, classical guitar is a solo guitar. Bluegrass is an ensemble music, and you need to be in your own sonic space and be able to be heard when a fiddle is sawing away to your right and a banjo is rolling hard to your left. At best, the beautiful overtones of a cedar guitar will be lost, at worst, they will conflict with the banjo.

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by The Bard Rocks

others can be persnickety and let you know the "wrong" instrument is not so welcome as you'd hoped.

Yes, I believe those people are called "hacks."

[roylor4]

Another consideration is the softness/lack of durability of cedar. A flailing R hand that would barely scratch Spruce can literally take a chunk out of Cedar.

A pickguard would be a necessity.