Schertler Jam 100: Is this amp idiot proofed?

[ricdoug]

Originally Posted by dannyg1

There are now a good number of us (maybe 6-7) who own this amp, which is good because it‘s finally time to get a full picture of what this amp is out on the AGF.

When I bought the amp a couple of months back, I had expected a level of excellence that was a step above most anything available, based on what little info I could find here on the forum. At that point there was only one vocal person on the AGF who surely owned the thing and his review was basically a pointer to Teja Gerkin’s AG magazine review and video. The AG Magazine review, though fairly well done turned out to be a bit less than complete, if you were looking to get a full picture of what you were shopping for. Pretty much everything available here on the AGF, to base an informed decision from, was impressions people had of the Jam 150.

Long story short is that I did buy it and it’s a more than a bit different than what I expected.

My impression of the Jam 100 I own is mixed, mostly because I had such high expectations. All of the things that others have featured in their reviews do stand true: It is stunning to look at and use. It is an amazingly large sounding amp for such a small box and it does deliver a truly natural, organic sound that is micro-detailed and beautiful in a blooming sense.

So what’s not to like?

Well, I think that Schertler might have idiot-proofed this amp and left its users in very limited control of what the amp can do. It occurred to me the last time I was using the amp in a direct comparison with my Loudbox Mini. Fact is that no-matter what settings you choose to apply to the Schertler, it’ll still sound good, though very little changed and while that might be great for Schertler….

What’s bad about that is that every control this amp has is more of a ‘flavor’ than it is a control. The Q on the 3 bands of EQ are canyon wide and, my guess is in order to avoid any phase shift at all, tend to be almost useless for feedback control or true sound shaping. Schertler says that these controls are +/- 15 db and I can’t hear that. I’d say that they’re +/- 6db at best.

Compared directly to the Loudbox Mini, the EQ controls of the Jam 100 sound like they’re absolutely, unfailingly polite, like salt and pepper vs. hot sauce. The reverb is also exactly like this. On the street reverb gets eaten by the free air and though the Schertler’s reverb sounds gorgeous, there’s no setting where there’s enough of it for the street.

Overall, the general effect I’ve noticed is that the amp always sounds good-great and that’s a huge plus but the micro details it presents and the lack of any real sound shaping ability forces the player to be close to perfect in every sense (I fingerpick and if you pluck a string even ever so slightly too hard it’s easy to hear as a mistake) and though that’s good in many ways, this is not an amp that’s simple to coax a sound you might want to direct out of it. It plays you just as much as you play it.

With that said, I’m keeping mine for stage playing (Inside a room, the controls don’t need as much oomph to make a good difference) and may actually buy two more to run as a tiny PA. Its flat frequency response/neutrality makes for an excellent PA speaker and though it’s not powerful enough to be DJ friendly, a set of two as mains and one as a monitor would make for a stellar sounding PA for a player, especially given the sound shaping control a good mixer adds to the equation.

To be clear, this really could be the perfect amp. Everything that it does it does really well with the exception of the ability of the user to direct the sound’s character and my guess is that Schertler might very well have set up the amp the way they did to be sure that it never sounds bad.. Which should be good, right?

Not for a professional tool in my opinion. It really needs a more powerful front end to be all that it promises it can be.

Carvin AG300 simply blows this amp away in every category.

[dannyg1]

Kurt,

I might be interested in buying your Jam 100, if you're selling it.I used it as a PA speaker (I even let a DJ play through it, which really wasn't very smart of me) and it was impressive as I'd thought it would be.

[dannyg1]

RicDoug,

The Farvin amp I'd like to hear against the Jam 100 is the Stagemate s600b. Seems like a closer match for size and capability. Still have yet to hear/play through a Carvin anything though.

[TNO]

There's a lot of Carvin fan boys on this site. I ordered one and returned it. Take the rave reviews with a grain of salt...

[dannyg1]

Originally Posted by TNO

There's a lot of Carvin fan boys on this site. I ordered one and returned it. Take the rave reviews with a grain of salt...

I've got to agree with that. I'm making big bullet points out of my impressions because any mention that I'd read of say, the Schertlers EQ being light/delicate was said in a very casual, btw manner and it didn't register that I was buying something like that. I did find reference to it (in Jam 150 comments) after I'd bought the amp, but it was never said like it might be a bit of a problem.

I'm also finding that my Loudbox 100, contrary to _so many reviews I've read here, sounds markedly more boxy and sterile than the current Loudbox Artist version and it's just not a turn for the better. I like the metal grille but there's no argument that can be made for which will win the direct comparison. At least that's my impression from memory (and heavily using the Loudbox Mini I also own).

[ricdoug]

Most non-Carvin fans I've run into prefer a colored sound, as compared to clean and transparent. Horses for courses. Take non-Carvin fans opinion's with a grain of salt. The Carbon AG300 has the best "sounds like my non-amplified guitar" sound I've heard. Myy bass player Craig is getting one to supplement his Schertler 400. He prefers the sound of the AG300, but likes the extra channels of the Schertler 400. This is not to knock the Schertler 100 or 150. When you discount the input of those that prefer Carvin, you discount the validity of your preferences. That does not by any means that I doubt the Schertler's work better for those that prefer them. Ric

[ricdoug]

Originally Posted by dannyg1

Kurt,

I might be interested in buying your Jam 100, if you're selling it.I used it as a PA speaker (I even let a DJ play through it, which really wasn't very smart of me) and it was impressive as I'd thought it would be.

Too bad you are not closer to San Diego, Danny. My friend Court has the S600B with one extension speaker and that combo will throw half a football field with ease.

[dannyg1]

RicDoug wrote:

"When you discount the input of those that prefer Carvin, you discount the validity of your preferences."

I don't discount the opinions of everyone who write that 'name your amp is great'. I've got a problem with the general level of information that's being conveyed by most reviews, and the fear people seem to have, of offending other owners or the MFG's of said products.

In direct terms, when I discuss my preferences, I try to give as detailed and round a picture of why and how I arrived at those preferences and I'm not shy about telling the entire story (Take the initial review of the Schertler in this thread. Is it a good review or a bad one?)

Were people to question the validity of say, my impressions of the Jam 100, I'd think that they're more than likely to be trying to confirm their own love/hate feelings for the product, rather than actually taking in what I've written. No product is perfect and though the Jam 100 is a great choice for a lot of players, it has some minuses that leave room for others, like me for instance.

I'm really impressed by what it does well but I'm looking for an amp that does what I need it to do, not what Schertler thinks is best for their reputation.

An example of an amp that gets loads of great reviews by a lot of people here that I absolutely know is only a mediocre product in its intended use, when used as a professional tool - the Roland AC33. I'll never understand how an amp as underpowered, distorted and underwhelming can "sound good" to so many.

Maybe in a closed door bedroom, but anyplace larger and it's beyond it's capability.

[weekapaugh]

Is the Schertler Jam 100 loud enough to play small gigs (coffee shops, small bar)? Or would the 200 be better?

[Cuki79]

Hi Dannyg1,

My SR tech EQ is weird I agree. My observation so far is that SR Tech JAMs have poor mixing features. The two JAM150+ I have has 600 Ohm mic input impedance and the Hi input is 47kohms... (where a fishman would be at least 1Mohm)

The truth is historically, the "real" amps were the Schertler David & Unico models that feature "real" preamps & EQs made in switzerland. The JAM series was - poor man- amp with the same amplification but cheap approximative mixers.

I don't know what they did now on the new JAMS but at least they have improved a little the impedance and added gain pots.

You have to know that here in Europe JAMs were cheap amps when SR started to sell... ACUS for example are cheaper than Fishmans. They were not considered the top end from European production.

However I still like and use them a lot... and I have my own way to dial a good sound.

Cuki

[aknow]

Originally Posted by dannyg1

There are now a good number of us (maybe 6-7) who own this amp, which is good because it‘s finally time to get a full picture of what this amp is out on the AGF.

When I bought the amp a couple of months back, I had expected a level of excellence that was a step above most anything available, based on what little info I could find here on the forum. At that point there was only one vocal person on the AGF who surely owned the thing and his review was basically a pointer to Teja Gerkin’s AG magazine review and video. The AG Magazine review, though fairly well done turned out to be a bit less than complete, if you were looking to get a full picture of what you were shopping for. Pretty much everything available here on the AGF, to base an informed decision from, was impressions people had of the Jam 150.

Long story short is that I did buy it and it’s a more than a bit different than what I expected.

My impression of the Jam 100 I own is mixed, mostly because I had such high expectations. All of the things that others have featured in their reviews do stand true: It is stunning to look at and use. It is an amazingly large sounding amp for such a small box and it does deliver a truly natural, organic sound that is micro-detailed and beautiful in a blooming sense.

So what’s not to like?

Well, I think that Schertler might have idiot-proofed this amp and left its users in very limited control of what the amp can do. It occurred to me the last time I was using the amp in a direct comparison with my Loudbox Mini. Fact is that no-matter what settings you choose to apply to the Schertler, it’ll still sound good, though very little changed and while that might be great for Schertler….

What’s bad about that is that every control this amp has is more of a ‘flavor’ than it is a control. The Q on the 3 bands of EQ are canyon wide and, my guess is in order to avoid any phase shift at all, tend to be almost useless for feedback control or true sound shaping. Schertler says that these controls are +/- 15 db and I can’t hear that. I’d say that they’re +/- 6db at best.

Compared directly to the Loudbox Mini, the EQ controls of the Jam 100 sound like they’re absolutely, unfailingly polite, like salt and pepper vs. hot sauce. The reverb is also exactly like this. On the street reverb gets eaten by the free air and though the Schertler’s reverb sounds gorgeous, there’s no setting where there’s enough of it for the street.

Overall, the general effect I’ve noticed is that the amp always sounds good-great and that’s a huge plus but the micro details it presents and the lack of any real sound shaping ability forces the player to be close to perfect in every sense (I fingerpick and if you pluck a string even ever so slightly too hard it’s easy to hear as a mistake) and though that’s good in many ways, this is not an amp that’s simple to coax a sound you might want to direct out of it. It plays you just as much as you play it.

With that said, I’m keeping mine for stage playing (Inside a room, the controls don’t need as much oomph to make a good difference) and may actually buy two more to run as a tiny PA. Its flat frequency response/neutrality makes for an excellent PA speaker and though it’s not powerful enough to be DJ friendly, a set of two as mains and one as a monitor would make for a stellar sounding PA for a player, especially given the sound shaping control a good mixer adds to the equation.

To be clear, this really could be the perfect amp. Everything that it does it does really well with the exception of the ability of the user to direct the sound’s character and my guess is that Schertler might very well have set up the amp the way they did to be sure that it never sounds bad.. Which should be good, right?

Not for a professional tool in my opinion. It really needs a more powerful front end to be all that it promises it can be.

What a great review. I've had this amp for 3 years, and the best thing about it is it's appearance. No matter what settings you change, it sounds the same, albeit good. To my ears, it is inferior to the AER c-60 sound.

[zhunter]

Kind of a necro thread? But since it went this way...

Used my Unico a couple of weeks back for a duo, female vocalist, me on guitar both through the Unico. A buddy of mine who does sound and has heard us through all sorts of systems, including the mighty L1/Tonematch Bose setup, said her voice through the Unico sounded the best he had heard it. The guitar was just right.

Maybe Schertler is just smarter than the average user? At least for the Unico (and the David as I can attest).

hunter

[RustyAxe]

Originally Posted by rockabilly69

Buy an Empress Para EQ, add it to the guitar channel and you will have all the control you need to tailor the sound as you wish!

Indeed! The Empress was one of my best recent purchases. Excellent tight Q for notching, wider Q for tone shaping. My only niggle with it is the need to use their separate power supply. Worth the little hassle, though.

[dannyg1]

Originally Posted by aknow

What a great review. I've had this amp for 3 years, and the best thing about it is it's appearance. No matter what settings you change, it sounds the same, albeit good. To my ears, it is inferior to the AER c-60 sound.

Thanks for the compliment. When you buy an amp, its good to know exactly what you can expect and this review is a dissection of my expectations, based
Mostly on what I’d read here and the much different reality that I found.

As for the other comment, I’m pretty sure that we Schertler users/customers know pretty well what we want from an amp and know that better than Schertler could ever know (for all of us zhunter?).

I’ve yet to try the latest Jam amps and who knows, maybe the front end is more dynamic now. These are great amps, so long as you know exactly what you’re buying.

[sdelsolray]

Here are two points adding to this discussion:

1) I have a Jam 150. It's three band graphic EQ works quite well for that amp. I did connect the amp's line outputs to my full mini-PA back end (Bryston 3BST and a pair of Daedalus W823 speakers). It did quite well. I noticed the Jam 150's EQ was more noticeable (in terms on cuts and gains) with the larger system and less with the smaller power amp/speakers in the Jam 150 box. I've noticed this in the past with other gear. Less is noticeable with smaller speakers. For example, if I boost EQ at 1K HZ by 10 dB on dinky computer speakers I'm not going to hear much change. Contrast that with the same boost on a high end mini-PA system. The Jam 100 is closer to the former than the later. A Jam 150 or 200 is somewhere in the middle.

2) I've owned and used many different EQ units. While somewhat counter-intuitive, the higher quality EQ units (e.g., Millennia Media, Crane Song, Speck, among others) tend to be less obvious as you increase a boost or gain for any particular EQ filter, whether rolloff, bell, pass, for Q settings, etc.. Cheaper and more faulty EQ circuits tend to be quite obvious when employed, whether though distortion, phase issues or ringing.