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#1
08-18-2014, 11:21 PM
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Trapeze Bridge
So... how do we feel about trapeze bridges? The old wraparound the back bridge and tailpiece a la old Gibson? I want to buy a vintage guitar that has that very type of tailpiece. I'd have to buy it sight/sound unseen over the internet as I cannot get to where it is... but I have heard tell that they can tricky and can cause intonation problems.
Anyone have any strong opinions on it either way? Many thanks M
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Martin BC, Canada 
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#2
08-19-2014, 06:45 AM
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I don't think anyone does the wrap around on a trapeze bridge or maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you mean. The wrap around is somewhat common on the Gibson style stop tail pieces and ABR1 type bridge where the taill piece is fastened to the top just a couple inches behind the bridge. Some people like to do a wrap around because it softens the string break angle over the bridge.
The trapeze bridge (really it's a trapeze tail piece) might have intonation problems for a couple of reasons, 1) the guitar owner changes strings and drops the bridge and doesn't know how to set it back properly or 2) when playing your palm pushes on the strings that extend from the bridge to the tail piece. In the second case that can actually be a cool Bigsby type effect but sometimes can be an accident.
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#3
08-19-2014, 07:05 AM
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I did a big restoration project on a 1956 Gibson ES-225T. It came with a wrap-around trapeze tailpiece, but it was an electric. Due to intonation problems, the most common modification back then was to replace the wrap-around with a straight through trapeze tailpiece. Finding an original tailpiece was really hard.
On an acoustic, the trapeze tailpiece would be nice because it reduces stress on the soundboard, but there will be a shallower break angle over the saddle. Also I read an interesting insight here on AGF (Might have been Bob Womack - I don't recall) who said that cheap guitars often used these as a way to overcome weak construction of the soundboard and bracing.
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Fazool "The wand chooses the wizard, Mr. Potter" Taylor GC7, GA3-12, SB2-C, SB2-Cp...... Ibanez AVC-11MHx , AC-240
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#4
08-19-2014, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
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Martin BC, Canada
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#5
08-19-2014, 08:26 AM
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Martin BC, Canada
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#6
08-19-2014, 08:50 AM
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...i've had 335's with and without them and i've played some early les pauls with the variety you're referring to...i don't find a huge difference tonally though there must be some....they seem to feel a little slinkier from a playability aspect...what i don't like about them is that if you're a gigging player and you break a string the whole guitar goes out of tune because it changes the string tension...but that was in the old days when i actually gigging a lot and broke strings occasionally.....it certainly wouldn't keep me from acquiring a sweet vintage Gibson....
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#7
08-19-2014, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Mine was a 1956. They came in two variants: a single pickup and a double pickup version. Both pickups were black single coil P90's The original, authentic versions came with the wraparound trapeze tailpiece you showed. There was no bridge on these. The strings floated right to the wraparound bar. A lot of people didn't like these and had intonation issues. The common replacement was a shorter straight bar trapeze tailpiece and an adjustable floating wooden bridge. I never got a straight fact or answer but I don't think Gibson ever offered the shorter tialpiece+bridge option as standard (at least in 1956) - those were always aftermarket. Look at this photo for a comparison  The other thing that is a common repair need is the tuners. The plastic (?) tuner buttons get super brittle and crumble. You can get buttons but they aren't a good match. I found that the original Kluson company makes the original tuners (100% exact as in 1956) and you can buy those direct for about $100 a set.
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Fazool "The wand chooses the wizard, Mr. Potter" Taylor GC7, GA3-12, SB2-C, SB2-Cp...... Ibanez AVC-11MHx , AC-240
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#8
08-19-2014, 09:20 AM
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Thanks for all the info Fazool... yeah, I've researched them quite a bit. I've been looking for the sunburst, single P-90 version for a while now. I played one at Guitar Showcase in San Jose a few months ago and I really like the sound of that single pickup, centrally located. I also think it looks great too. There are quite a few two pickup versions kicking around and even some that have had replacement humbuckers put in. And, yes, quite a few with replaced tuners and with a floating bridge/stop trapeze. I just think the guitar looks really neat in it's original configuration...
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Martin BC, Canada
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#9
08-19-2014, 09:26 AM
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I had a Gibson ES-335 from the early 70's with a trapeze tailpiece.
That particular design had a small hinged base near the strap pin that would allow the tailpiece to move from side to side if a string broke. If I still had it I may have changed it to a stop tailpiece....
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#10
08-19-2014, 10:38 AM
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The OP is talking about the particular bridge/tailpiece unit used on the ES 225, ES 295 and very early LesPauls, not the ubiquitous trapeze tailpiece used in conjunction with an intonated bridge. Totally different piece of hardware.
Those are fine, the intonation will be a little off on some strings, but no worse than on a traditional Tele with 3 saddles. It is always possible to replace the whole unit with a trapeze tailpiece and ABR-1 on a wooden base without altering the guitar as no holes will be drilled (as on the last guitar on the 225 pic a couple of posts up).
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Laurent Brondel "Faiseur d'instruments"
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#11
08-19-2014, 11:13 AM
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i have a first year '55 225 and it is a great guitar. i have chosen to take the route of the shorter tailpiece and added bridge. i have kept the original tailpiece so that when i eventually sell it, it will be original. it gets a wonderful sound with that p90 in the middle position. . . .quite different than my 125t that has the p90 in the neck position. i also have a 125tcd with dual p90s that really growls!
if it is a good deal for you, pick it up, you'll love it! real light and easy to play! play music!
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2014 Martin 00015M 2009 Martin 0015M 2008 Martin HD28 2007 Martin 000-18GE 2006 Taylor 712 2006 Fender Parlor GDP100 1978 Fender F65 1968 Gibson B25-12N Various Electrics
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#12
08-19-2014, 11:26 AM
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But I tried and tried to find an authentic trapeze wrap-around tailpiece. They would show up but inevitably they always sold for $400. Every time. That's was the going price. So I held off for the longest time. with the short tailpiece and bridge, I knew it wasn't as valuable but I wouldn't take the bet that I could get $400 more for it with the proper tailpiece. Their price is a bit high, unless its really minty. I would give mine (single P90 version) an 8/10 and the going price seemed to hover between $1300-$1600. Now, if you throw in an extra $400 for that tailpiece, you might be right in the ballpark. Again, it depends on the condition, but I think $1500-$1600 is a much more reasonable price for a single pickup version.
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Fazool "The wand chooses the wizard, Mr. Potter" Taylor GC7, GA3-12, SB2-C, SB2-Cp...... Ibanez AVC-11MHx , AC-240
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#13
08-19-2014, 11:44 AM
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Martin BC, Canada
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#14
08-19-2014, 01:27 PM
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Fazool "The wand chooses the wizard, Mr. Potter" Taylor GC7, GA3-12, SB2-C, SB2-Cp...... Ibanez AVC-11MHx , AC-240
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