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Old 01-18-2018, 10:28 PM
Mandobart Mandobart is offline
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Default Speaking of Writing...

I have great respect for the great lyricists - writers like Tom Waits, John Prine, Steve Goodman, TVZ, etc. They can take ordinary life and boil it down so well. I don't know if songwriting is a gift, a skill that can be improved with practice, or some combination. My own few attempts fall very short. Does anyone have suggestions for actively improving songwriting? Do you work at it or wait for inspiration?
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Old 01-18-2018, 10:32 PM
Looburst Looburst is offline
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It's most certainly is a bit of both. You can work at it and make yourself better at it, but you have to get around other great writers to become one yourself. I thought I was pretty good at it till I moved to Nashville and met and worked with other writers, boy did I not know much! These guys don't walk around with a rhyming dictionary, it's all in their heads. They understand structure, when to throw all that out and also when to use it to it's best degree ever.
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Old 01-18-2018, 10:50 PM
DupleMeter DupleMeter is offline
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check out these books by Pat Pattison. Pat is the lyric writing teacher at Berklee. A great guy who knows his writing. His classes might have been my favorite.

I also believe he teaches a songwriting class through Berklee Online. I don't know anything about the online classes - I graduated in '92...so it was before all that. But if it gets you facetime with Pat & your songs, it's worth it. He's really great at nudging you to the next thing for your writing & helping you find your voice.

https://www.amazon.com/Writing-Bette...s+pat+pattison

https://www.amazon.com/Songwriting-W...s+pat+pattison

https://www.amazon.com/Songwriting-E...s+pat+pattison
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Old 01-19-2018, 12:58 PM
DukeX DukeX is offline
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Writing is a craft as much as an art. Yes, native talent and imagination, as in any endeavor, play a key role in what is ultimately produced. But you can learn the craft.

There are many excellent songwriting books available. Some focus on lyric writing. They are both informative and entertaining. Here are just a few authors:
Molly-Ann-Leikin
Shelia Davis
John Braheny
Pamela Phillips Oland
Jason Blume
Pat & Pete Luboff
Jimmy Webb
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Old 01-19-2018, 02:24 PM
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If writing songs is your interest then write. When inspiration happens along you will be ready. If you're not writing and inspiration comes along it'll be a waste because you aren't ready. To write a really well crafted song you will have to write allot of crap. The trick is knowing what to throw away. Which in the end is usually most of it.
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Old 01-20-2018, 10:25 AM
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I wrote up a piece for my website about this very thing and hadn't gotten around to posting it until you asked. So I posted it and you can read about how I wrote my last song and hear it, HERE.

Bob
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Old 01-20-2018, 11:45 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Writing a good lyric is like writing a good melody, IMO. You have to write a lot of crap first, like Mr Jelly says. But you can sometimes hit on a phrase or short fragment that resonates - words just as much as notes. So you make a note of it, save it for later.
It might not become a song right away - or ever - but usually you can develop it in the direction it suggests, and maybe add some other fragment from your notebook. It can take a lot of sweat and hammering, sawing and chiseling to produce a finished product.

My favourite lyricist is Leonard Cohen, and he often said it might take him months, even years to complete a song. I find that a refreshing antidote to all those stories of people writing hits in 15 minutes! I'm sure that's true too, but the point is it's OK to take ages to get it done, no shame in being unable to just produce something with little effort.

Second favourite lyricist: Joni Mitchell. She and Cohen are true poets, even more than Dylan is. Tom Waits too, under-rated in many ways IMO - too well know for his image, not enough for his songwriting skills.

Poetry is not just about making the lines scan and rhyme (although that's hard enough...). It's not about fancy words either. It's about the resonant phrase, a way of saying something that might not have occurred to you before. A description with a hidden second meaning. A complex idea or feeling summed up in a few words. You can't really plan for that, any more than you can plan to come up with a great tune. You just have keep your ears open for inspiration when it strikes.
The songwriting craft - and I suspect this is where the books come in - is more about how you hammer your inspiration into shape.
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Old 01-20-2018, 12:38 PM
DaveKell DaveKell is offline
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Here's lyrics I wrote in my head driving out of Atlanta. Took me about 10 minutes. I envision it with a rockabilly flair. A well known songwriting friend in Nashville is in possession of it now.

Atlanta's Georgia
I met her in a bar where she sat cryin'
right out of Atlanta and the sparks were flyin'
she said her name was Georgia and
she's doin' all she can
to get over a low down
slow drivin' man

she said a slow drivin' man can't
get her where she wants to go
a slow drivin' man can't
teach her what she wants to know
I offered her a ride and
she took me by the hand and said
"baby I'm prayin' you ain't
a slow drivin' man"

now I'm haulin' across Georgia
just as fast as I can
checking' out the curves with
a stick shift in my hands
cruisin' down in a valley
where I found a lot of thrills
in a flash I'm racin' back
up into the hills
haulin' 'cross Georgia just
as fat as I can
babe I gotta warn ya I
ain't a slow drivin' man

After our ride I drove her
back to the bar
she hopped out and said
"boy I love your car. If
you come back to Atlanta
please drop in. I'll be real
happy to go ridin' again"

because a slow drivin' man
can't get her where she wants to go
a slow drivin' man can't teach
her what she wants to know
I offered her a ride and she
took me by the hand
right then she saw I ain't
a slow drivin' man

now I'm haulin' 'cross Georgia
just as fast as I can
checking' out her curves with my
stick shift in my hand
cruisin' down in that valley where
I found a lot of thrills
in a flash Im racin' back
up into those hills

haulin' 'cross Georgia just as fast
as I can
baby you know I ain't a
slow drivin' man...

I had to keep repeating it in my hand until I got to a stop where I could write it down!
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Old 01-21-2018, 03:15 PM
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I have to admit am very sporadic songwriter.

I have played Guitar since 1964 and for 30 years I basically worked on playing covers and developing my own style for doing so. I would devote virtually no time to writing although I would sometimes mess around with developing little musical chord and picking progressions.
I would only rarely try to come up with lyrics but they always sounded so Corny that I would quickly give up .

Then when I turned 50 I decided I would devote some time to trying to learn how to write songs. But even so I still am pretty sporadic in spending any time doing so. I will go for a few days to a couple weeks and maybe try to work each day for an hour or two but then it may be months (sometimes 6 or 8) before I try to write again.

I realize this is a poor work ethic and a poor way to really hone the craft, but it is the way work or should play, at it .
And it shows because I only have about 10 songs written. with another 25 to 30 as work in progress.
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Old 01-21-2018, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DupleMeter View Post
check out these books by Pat Pattison. Pat is the lyric writing teacher at Berklee. A great guy who knows his writing. His classes might have been my favorite.

I also believe he teaches a songwriting class through Berklee Online. I don't know anything about the online classes - I graduated in '92...so it was before all that. But if it gets you facetime with Pat & your songs, it's worth it. He's really great at nudging you to the next thing for your writing & helping you find your voice.

https://www.amazon.com/Writing-Bette...s+pat+pattison

https://www.amazon.com/Songwriting-W...s+pat+pattison

https://www.amazon.com/Songwriting-E...s+pat+pattison
The Berklee class is well worth your time, assuming you are not adverse to Hoboes.

I also have Pattison's guide to writing better lyrics. It's a good guide.
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Old 01-23-2018, 12:10 PM
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I usually have to work at it as far as the structure. I found that having grandkids is what changed things for me and inspired me. I just dabble... Here is one song I did back when they were small. I am no singer though I can get the point across...

https://youtu.be/-L_9SJqhehI
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Old 01-23-2018, 01:56 PM
RedJoker RedJoker is online now
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I'm on a songwriting forum that has monthly songwriting challenges. If you win, you get to pick the subject for the next month. That has helped me tremendously!

This month's theme is 'pets' and here is my entry. I'm never going to win awards with it but I never would have tried this subject otherwise. There are a few things I may steal out of it for future songs.

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Old 01-23-2018, 07:04 PM
RedJoker RedJoker is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DupleMeter View Post
check out these books by Pat Pattison. Pat is the lyric writing teacher at Berklee. A great guy who knows his writing. His classes might have been my favorite.

I also believe he teaches a songwriting class through Berklee Online. I don't know anything about the online classes - I graduated in '92...so it was before all that. But if it gets you facetime with Pat & your songs, it's worth it. He's really great at nudging you to the next thing for your writing & helping you find your voice.

https://www.amazon.com/Writing-Bette...s+pat+pattison

https://www.amazon.com/Songwriting-W...s+pat+pattison

https://www.amazon.com/Songwriting-E...s+pat+pattison
Just so happens, two of these books showed up today! I've got some reading to do.
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:41 PM
DupleMeter DupleMeter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoneDigger View Post
The Berklee class is well worth your time, assuming you are not adverse to Hoboes.
Does Pat still do that! LOL!
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1988 Fender Fretless J Bass
1991 Washburn HB-35s
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1996 Taylor 510c (custom)
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Old 01-24-2018, 09:17 AM
jaymarsch jaymarsch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Womack View Post
I wrote up a piece for my website about this very thing and hadn't gotten around to posting it until you asked. So I posted it and you can read about how I wrote my last song and hear it, HERE.

Bob
Thanks for sharing this, Bob. I will check it out after work today.

I am part of a regular songwriting group and that helps me stay the course and get feedback. We pay a local singer/songwriter and guitar teacher to lead the group and give us exercises and assignments. I have found that it really helps to have a regularly scheduled time to just keep writing. My songs tend to be story songs but I have been trying all sorts of stuff. Good to shake things up now and then but I have always been a storyteller at heart.

Best,
Jayne
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