Will Major Wooden Guitar Makers Embrace Carbon As A Construction Alternative?

[SpruceTop]

Hi Folks,

I'm conducting a poll to see what you think is the possibility that major wooden guitar makers, such as Martin, Taylor, Gibson, Larrivee, Takamine, and others, will eventually use carbon fiber (aka graphite fiber) to make a series of guitars that will be sold alongside their all-wood guitars. Currently, the major carbon guitar companies are RainSong, Composite Acoustics, Emerald, and Blackbird. At least one wooden custom guitar maker, Mario Proulx, incorporates carbon fiber/spruce laminate bracing into his designs. There may be others too and this would indicate to me that carbon fiber is making inroads on guitar makers and many guitar players and is here to stay. Could carbon fiber be a construction material that major wooden guitar makers may be looking at as a future hedge against supposedly dwindling supplies of traditionally-accepted tonewoods? To me, it would seem silly for any major guitar brand not to be investigating the possible usage of carbon fiber or maybe other materials too as a guitar construction medium.

Please see my poll and thanks for voting and for posting any comments you wish to leave for all to read!

Regards,

SpruceTop

[ironman187]

I dunno, it's possible that some major manufacturers will make a model or two out of carbon fiber, but will they sell? I doubt it, People like Taylor and Martin specialize in getting good sound out of wood, not carbon fiber. Whereas Rainsong and CA specialize in carbon fiber guitars and have that tone dialed in. Will major manufacturers use carbon fiber in bracing, trussrod, and cosmetic appointments, most likely, but the supply of trees is not dwindling as low as some may have you think, and if it ever got to the point where there was none left, well, first off, Martin and Taylor would die, the remaining wooden guitars would skyrocket in price, and mankind would have a lot more to worry about than buying instruments.

Oh, I laughed at your last question, because trees are basically made of carbon, so everybody has carbon fiber guitars

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by ironman187

I dunno, it's possible that some major manufacturers will make a model or two out of carbon fiber, but will they sell? I doubt it, People like Taylor and Martin specialize in getting good sound out of wood, not carbon fiber. Whereas Rainsong and CA specialize in carbon fiber guitars and have that tone dialed in. Will major manufacturers use carbon fiber in bracing, trussrod, and cosmetic appointments, most likely, but the supply of trees is not dwindling as low as some may have you think, and if it ever got to the point where there was none left, well, first off, Martin and Taylor would die, the remaining wooden guitars would skyrocket in price, and mankind would have a lot more to worry about than buying instruments.

Oh, I laughed at your last question, because trees are basically made of carbon, so everybody has carbon fiber guitars

The last choice was designed to get a laugh from those who ... er, um, ... well ... you know what I mean.

Regards,

SpruceTop

[Jeff M]

......No......

[Aaron Smith]

I think the most likely scenario would be that CA and Rainsong continue to grow, and the larger manufacturers eventually acquire them.

[roberts]

I think we're starting to see guys using carbon as a common sense way to make guitars stronger while lighter. Kent Chasson uses an internal carbon strut system on his instruments and Randy Muth inserts a thin carbon layer within his otherwise traditional braces. Both are making small bodied guitars that are REALLY responsive, deep sounding, and feather-light. So, maybe not all-carbon but I wouldn't be surprised to see it in some form.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Aaron Smith

I think the most likely scenario would be that CA and Rainsong continue to grow, and the larger manufacturers eventually acquire them.

Excellent Point & Possibilty!

SpruceTop

[rmyAddison]

No.

Martin makes wood guitars and hopefully will forever.

The carbon/composite builders can make their guitars.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by roberts

I think we're starting to see guys using carbon as a common sense way to make guitars stronger while lighter. Kent Chasson uses an internal carbon strut system on his instruments and Randy Muth inserts a thin carbon layer within his otherwise traditional braces. Both are making small bodied guitars that are REALLY responsive, deep sounding, and feather-light. So, maybe not all-carbon but I wouldn't be surprised to see it in some form.

The makers you've cited, along with Mario Proulx, are adding to the list of makers using carbon in some way to craft their guitars in what they feel may be a better way. I wonder who are some other makers currently using carbon (carbon fiber) as a means toward crafting their guitars?

Regards,

SpruceTop

[Brackett Instruments]

I voted "possibly" since it says "Major Makers". I love the "carbon trees" comment though.
FWIW, I've played some CA's I liked. I "appreciate" Rainsongs, and their place in the guitar world, even though they aren't for my ears.

If I'm going to use Carbon Fiber (for anything other than neck reinforcements) it will be coming from "carbon fiber trees".

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by woody b

I voted "possibly" since it says "Major Makers". I love the "carbon trees" comment though.
FWIW, I've played some CA's I liked. I "appreciate" Rainsongs, and their place in the guitar world, even though they aren't for my ears.

If I'm going to use Carbon Fiber (for anything other than neck reinforcements) it will be coming from "carbon fiber trees".

Would you believe several stands of these have been recently discovered in the Amazon Basin? The Brazilian government has already enacted a law to prohibit their harvesting mainly because several loggers have already been injured by chainsaw kickback when trying to fell these very hard trees. Hey, Guys! A suggestion: Diamond-coated chainsaw blades! HelloooOOOoo!

Regards,

SpruceTop

[jackstrat]

The major manufacturers may very well go with carbon fiber.

For heaven's sake, Martin uses HPL for sides and backs. Carbon fiber beats that big time in my book.

Martin has an aluminum guitar.

Martin has started using non-typical woods such as katalox, cherry, etc.

There is still plenty of wood but we're using it up pretty fast (making diapers of all things..).

No, Martin, Taylor, etc will never go ALL carbon fiber, but chances are they will make alternative lines of guitars out of the stuff.

JackL

[gitnoob]

Martin already has a graphite model:
http://www.elderly.com/new_instruments/items/GRAPH2.htm

If it takes off like wildfire, then I imagine they'll make more of them.

Takamine is distributed by Kaman, who also make Ovation/Adamas. I think they've been using carbon fiber longer than anybody else.

I have a carbon fiber guitar, but I think wood looks better, feels better, and sounds better. If we were using these things to play tennis, it might be a different story.

[Larry Pattis]

I don't care about the poll, really...but it's important (IMO) to note that "building" a carbon fiber guitar (such as CA does) has nothing to do with traditional or modern wooden guitar building techniques.

Composite Acoustics has a former GM engineer (or productions person) in charge of build operations (if I remember correctly), not a guy with a guitar-background...and the product and business had to be built from the ground up.

If Taylor or Martin or any other wooden guitar builders want to get in on carbon fiber guitars, they will have to do so a complete departure from everything that they currently do to design and build a guitar...and I mean *everything*! It's not a "construction alternative" that can be an easily implemented substitute, it's a complete do-over for a company to be able to head down this path.

Might happen, might not.

I think it would be a good thing, because it might give the customer some better/different options...but I wonder how one company would differentiate itself from the others. Style?

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by gitnoob

Martin already has a graphite model:
http://www.elderly.com/new_instruments/items/GRAPH2.htm

If it takes off like wildfire, then I imagine they'll make more of them.

Given that this was a 2003 Special Edition, and is 'not currently available', it probably wasn't a huge success.

It also only had a graphite top...