Boomering III Question and Pigtronix Infinity Comparisons

[open-road-matt]

Hi Folks!
I'm thinking about loopers. It looks like they might not be making the Boomerang anymore but the more I look at it, the more I think it might be the best for what I'm trying to do. If so, I'll track down a used one if I can.

My question for Boomerang III users is: can you assign one of the Bonus buttons to be a stop button and if so, can you use it to stop recording and then play the loop later? In every demo I've watched they hit a loop button to record and then hit the loop button to stop recording and go right into playing that loop. There are times when I would want to record a loop and not play it right away but stop recording with the ability to play that loop later on in a song.

Also, if you have assigned one of the Bonus buttons to be a stop button, how does it decide which loop to stop when you have more than one loop playing? Can you set it to stop just one loop or set it to stop all of the loops?

I'm currently trying out a Pigtronix Infinity looper (with the extra Undo/Reverse pedal) The sound quality is really good as are some of the features but there are some things that annoy me.

It could be that I'm just not very good at looping yet but I have a tough time using the 2 different loops on the Infinity. I've tried it both ways, in the Arm mode and in the All mode and there are plusses and minuses to each.

The All mode is nice since that allows me to hit Stop once to stop everything. When the Infinity is in Arm mode I have to "move" to each loop in order to stop it. But the downside of All mode is that once I have recorded two separate loops I am not able to stop one of those.

So I am mostly using the Arm mode. The downside of this mode is that you are not able to move over to loop 2 and use it later. Meaning as soon as I move over to loop 2 it starts recording so if I want a second loop that I can start and stop during a song, I have to record it right away. The other odd thing about the Infinity is that you always have to record loop 1 first. I'm not sure why that really matters to me but it just seems strange.

I wish someone made a 2 channel looper that was really a 2 channel looper. Meaning two stop buttons and two play/record buttons. Everything I've looked at has one stop button so you have to dance back and forth between two loops to indicate which loop you'd like to stop and they all have some sort of limitation on how the different loops are used and/or linked together.

Anyway, if someone with some Boomerang III experience could help out, that would be great. I'd also love to hear from anyone who has experience with both the Boomerang III and the Infinity.

Thanks!
Matt

[Hotspur]

Looking at loopers myself, and can't answer your question, but it does look like the Boomerang isn't going away. They sold the company, and the new owners are saying (on a web site that's been updated in the past couple of months) that the new production run will be shipping soon.

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by Hotspur

Looking at loopers myself, and can't answer your question, but it does look like the Boomerang isn't going away. They sold the company, and the new owners are saying (on a web site that's been updated in the past couple of months) that the new production run will be shipping soon.

That would be good news! I send an email to Boomerang to see when they might be available and to ask the same questions I asked here. I'll post their answer when I get one.

Matt

[Puerto Player]

You won't get any response from Boomerang, at least I've never been able to.

I went ahead and bought a Boss RC300. There is a learning curve, but it does it all. All stop as well as individual stops, serial and parallel loops, and control over everything. It's just big.

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by Puerto Player

You won't get any response from Boomerang, at least I've never been able to.

I went ahead and bought a Boss RC300. There is a learning curve, but it does it all. All stop as well as individual stops, serial and parallel loops, and control over everything. It's just big.

Thanks for the info! The RC300 looks good! Can you set it so that each loop is "free" and not dependent on any of the other loops?

I really like the idea of 3 separate stop buttons! I think I would also prefer these buttons to the metal ones on the Infinity.

Matt

[kramster]

Geesshhh I forgot that I have a looper... a TC Ditto X-4..I better have at it some

[Kalani]

Hey Matt,

I have the RC-50 which is the old RC-300 and yes, you’re able to use the 3 loops independently and yes, it’s big. Lol

It’s built solid—-mine is about 10 years old or so and going strong! Also, the built-in drums sound good too.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

My question for Boomerang III users is: can you assign one of the Bonus buttons to be a stop button and if so, can you use it to stop recording and then play the loop later?

Yes, you can do that. You can make the bonus button be a stop, and then to restart, just press one of the loop buttons.

In every demo I've watched they hit a loop button to record and then hit the loop button to stop recording and go right into playing that loop. There are times when I would want to record a loop and not play it right away but stop recording with the ability to play that loop later on in a song.

I do exactly that at times. I have a couple of tunes worked out with fairly complex looping, in an attempt to not make it obvious that I'm looping. For example, I can play a first verse, recording it. Then stop the loop recording and keep playing. Later, when I come back around to the verse again, I can kick off the loop recorded earlier. I have one tune where I do that with all three loops - never using them right after I record them, just bringing them back in later - takes a bit of concentration and memory...

Also, if you have assigned one of the Bonus buttons to be a stop button, how does it decide which loop to stop when you have more than one loop playing? Can you set it to stop just one loop or set it to stop all of the loops?

It will stop all the loops. You can stop any individual loop by pressing the individual loop button.

The manual for the Boomerang is quite good - long and complicated, but they do explain how to do all kinds of scenarios. You can download it.

I used the Boomerang for part of the AG article/lesson I did recently:

http://acousticguitar.com/a-guide-to...w-to-use-them/

The video's not long enough to go into all the details - it's not trying to be a Boomerang tutorial, and I don't recall if I demo your exact questions, but it might help give some idea of what you can do with it. I'm sure there are more detailed Boomerang demos online somewhere as well. The Boomerang, to me, is the most well-thought-out of the complex loopers. It does a ton of stuff, is extremely configurable, and yet easy to use, once you settle on how you want to set it up. I had an RC-300, and it's pretty astounding with what it can do, as well, but it's much more confusing. They actually put out a series of manuals to explain the manual, and I generally found I needed to take all of them with me to a gig to keep it all straight :-) It does do a lot, tho.

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by Kalani

Hey Matt,

I have the RC-50 which is the old RC-300 and yes, you’re able to use the 3 loops independently and yes, it’s big. Lol

It’s built solid—-mine is about 10 years old or so and going strong! Also, the built-in drums sound good too.

Nice!
I read something about loop quantizing. Is that something that can be turned off?

I tried out an RC30 and I had some trouble with it. I called Boss and the guy said the problem I was experiencing was due to the quantizing which was not able to be turned off with the RC30.

Thanks!
Matt

[cotten]

User Manual from June 2014:
https://medias.audiofanzine.com/file...n33-472208.pdf

cotten

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by cotten

User Manual from June 2014:
https://medias.audiofanzine.com/file...n33-472208.pdf

cotten

Awesome! Thanks Cotten!

Originally Posted by Doug Young

http://acousticguitar.com/a-guide-to...w-to-use-them/

Hi Doug!
That video is great! Thanks for sharing that! Very informative as always!

The Boomerang does seem really nice. I'm hoping I hear something back soon.

My opportunity to return or exchange the Pigtronix Infinity is closing fast!

I haven't read a bad review of the Infinity looper yet so maybe some of my trouble comes from being new to looping but....

1) I have a bit of a hard time with those small metal buttons. Sometimes I think I have clicked it but I haven't.

2) Many list the small size of the Infinity as a positive. I'm a big guy with big feet so when I am trying to use this as I would live, I often hit more than one button. They are pretty close together. It wouldn't be a problem if I sat down while I played but I don't.

3) It does bother me that I have to re-select a loop or as I like to think of it, move over to a loop to stop it or erase it. Meaning that if two loops are playing, I have to "click over" to the loop to do something with it.

4) If I were to really use the Infinity live I would need to purchase a small pedal board so that would be an added cost of keeping the Infinity.

5) I might (I stress might) like to try looping some vocals too.

#5 eliminates the Boomerang too but if I don't hear anything back from them soon I would have to give up on them anyway if I want to return the Infinity and get something else right away.

If that's what I want to do, (get something else right away) that probably pushes me to the RC300. That would allow me to loop vocals. It would give me separate stops for each loop. I like the fact that it has an all start/stop button. There are probably a ton of features I wouldn't ever use so hopefully its complexity wouldn't be an issue.

Tough call!

Thanks again!
Matt

[Hotspur]

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

5) I might (I stress might) like to try looping some vocals too.

#5 eliminates the Boomerang too but if I don't hear anything back from them soon I would have to give up on them anyway if I want to return the Infinity and get something else right away.

Couldn't use just get an XLR-to-quarter-inch connector and run your vocals through one of the stereo channels and the guitar through the other one? I think that'd work.

Their web page talks about their 2017-2018 production run so it seems like they should be out soon.

[Kalani]

On the RC-50 in the Play Mode section, the loop sync has to be off and ‘single’ has to be selected (not multi). Then all loops will operate independently (but they’ll still be in time) and you’ll have to start and stop each of them separately. Works great though.

Normally I would start a drum loop on one track then go to track 2 and loop a rhythm and then sometimes go to track 3 and loop a bass line. Then when I start singing, I’d go back to loop 2 and stop it (and do the rhythm part live again (or change it) and leave the others going.

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by Hotspur

Couldn't use just get an XLR-to-quarter-inch connector and run your vocals through one of the stereo channels and the guitar through the other one? I think that'd work.

Their web page talks about their 2017-2018 production run so it seems like they should be out soon.

Thank you for the suggestion.

I tried the XLR to 1/4" into input 2 on the Infinity looper and it didn't work. The signal wasn't hot enough. I would need a mic preamp. I guess I could consider a separate mic looper but that's another $99.

Originally Posted by Kalani

On the RC-50 in the Play Mode section, the loop sync has to be off and ‘single’ has to be selected (not multi). Then all loops will operate independently (but they’ll still be in time) and you’ll have to start and stop each of them separately. Works great though.

Normally I would start a drum loop on one track then go to track 2 and loop a rhythm and then sometimes go to track 3 and loop a bass line. Then when I start singing, I’d go back to loop 2 and stop it (and do the rhythm part live again (or change it) and leave the others going.

Thanks for the info!

When you say that the loops will still be "in time" what do you mean?

The fellow I spoke to at Boss about the RC30 said that when I record a loop the looper is trying to assign a tempo to the loop that I have recorded in beats per minute but since it can't calculate a partial beat so if I'm not perfect with a certain number of beats per minute, it will force the loop into the closest beats per minute and with the RC30 that is something that cannot be turned off. I was ending up with a little hiccup for lack of a better word that doesn't happen to me on loopers without the auto quantize feature.

I would rather work on and improve my timing than to have the looper try to fix it for me if that makes any sense.

Matt

[Kalani]

I think it's still quantized on the RC-50 because the loops and drums are still in sync. For example, I can't get my DittoX2 in perfect sync with an external drum machine like the Beatbuddy because there's no midi on the X2---they'll slowly drift off timing. But the individual loops tracks will remain in sync with each other on the RC-50 (without hiccups). So even though they're operating independently, they're still linked together timing wise.