The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Acoustic Amplification

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #16  
Old 02-23-2014, 09:30 PM
Jarvis Jarvis is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,590
Default

I have installed both Anthem and Lyrics above 100 units in many guitars...

The anthem is a great system if you want it with the loud bass response and still natural. A hint of that UST tone is still there.

The Lyric is a mic like tone.. proper EQ is needed to get the sound really right. But once its done ..its sweet ..woody and so natural ...many commented how natural it is...
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-23-2014, 09:34 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,557
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarvis View Post
I have installed both Anthem and Lyrics above 100 units in many guitars...

The anthem is a great system if you want it with the loud bass response and still natural. A hint of that UST tone is still there.

The Lyric is a mic like tone.. proper EQ is needed to get the sound really right. But once its done ..its sweet ..woody and so natural ...many commented how natural it is...
Jarvis, do you find that the Anthem changes the acoustic tone of the instrument at all?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-23-2014, 09:40 PM
Jarvis Jarvis is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,590
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
Jarvis, do you find that the Anthem changes the acoustic tone of the instrument at all?
Yes I do ..reason the Thick braided UST elements steals the acoustic tone of the guitar which i can hear. That's why I prefer the LYRIC.


However I have notice the LYRIC doesn't work well in certain size guitars...Charis SJ, Applegate SJ and Olson SJ. Feedback like crazy.

Maybe its the body size of just the tops of the above are way too sensitive.

The Anthem works best for the above 3 guitars mentioned
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-23-2014, 11:10 PM
j3ffr0 j3ffr0 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,933
Default

I concur that the Anthem noticeably robs the guitar of it's original sound. Somewhere between the abraded UST and the bulky preamp. I installed it and had to take it back out.

However, I will say that the thing sounds pretty good. Almost as good as the Taylor ES and better than the Fishmans.
__________________
Alvarez: DY61
Huss and Dalton: DS Crossroads, 00-SP
Kenny Hill: Heritage, Performance
Larrivee: CS09 Matt Thomas Limited
Taylor: 314ce, 356e, Baritone 8
Timberline: T60HGc
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-24-2014, 12:30 AM
Rmz76 Rmz76 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 3,946
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceabeceabe View Post
I've got an OM-21 and am thinking of putting an Anthem or Lyric in. I've seen a couple of people have the Anthem in 1 of their guitars and the Lyric in another. Others have probably had one, replaced it with the other...

Was wondering which people preferred, and why.

Also, what do others recommend for the om-21, and why?

Thank,

Curtis
Flip and coin and say a prayer... Budget in enough to have the thing swapped out a few times and make sure you have a good return policy on the pickup. After market pickups drive me crazy.

I'm pretty certain everyone who has installed a pickup in their acoustic is wondering in the back of their mind how some other vendors products might make it all sound better. I surely am... Kind of begun feeling as if LR Baggs are a bit overhyped. Certainly they have he pro endorsements to prove they make some quality products but certainly not the only vendor at the top of the mountain either.... Make sure you listen to direct sound samples of the Lyric, I am really not a fan of whatever it's doing to the lower frequencies.
__________________
Wayne


J-45 song of the day archive
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis..._Zmxz51NAwG1UJ

My music
https://soundcloud.com/waynedeats76
https://www.facebook.com/waynedeatsmusic

My guitars
Gibson, Martin, Blueridge, Alvarez, Takamine
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 02-25-2014, 03:28 PM
kmgiants kmgiants is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 46
Default

Is the OP still shopping? His post was from a few months ago. If so - and if you didn't use the search - I have that exact guitar, a 1995 OM-21 with the Anthem and absolutely love it. I can't speak for the Lyric. Haven't tried that.

Here's a sort of review - both from the audience perspective and as a performer - of the Anthem: http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=297313

I think a lot of it depends on your context though - both your playing style and context (loud rock/country band; coffee shop solo gigs, etc.). As well as how versatile of a solution you need. There's a lot of love (and hate) for various products/technologies out there but it all comes down to what works for you. A hard strummer is going to have a totally different reaction to a pickup than someone who plays quiet Nick Drake fingerstyle. For my money, the Anthem was a perfect solution - extremely natural sound whether i'm finger picking or hard strumming - ability to dial out the mic part completely if I find myself in a really loud feedback-prone situation. I'm running it through a Baggs Para DI and have had great results. Good luck!
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-25-2014, 04:33 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,557
Default

The Anthem looks nice but the change in my unplugged acoustic is worrisome. I have the lyric right now and I need to pair it with something and was thinking the K&K pure mini but I need to manage feedback.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-25-2014, 04:45 PM
Mayfair's Avatar
Mayfair Mayfair is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 730
Default

Have any of you used a soundhole cover with the Lyric?
__________________
"The real risk is not changing. I have to feel that I'm after something. If I make money, fine. But I'd rather be striving. It's the striving, man, it's that I want." - John Coltrane
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 02-25-2014, 11:59 PM
Rmz76 Rmz76 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 3,946
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceabeceabe View Post
I've got an OM-21 and am thinking of putting an Anthem or Lyric in. I've seen a couple of people have the Anthem in 1 of their guitars and the Lyric in another. Others have probably had one, replaced it with the other...

Was wondering which people preferred, and why.

Also, what do others recommend for the om-21, and why?

Thank,

Curtis
The mistake I made was assuming LR Baggs as the go-to for acoustic pickups. I don't even feel they are leader anymore (see and hear latest Fishman products). I don't think they are over-rated but I think the flaws and problems that come with many of their designs are carelessly over looked by media due to the brand. People really love this company for some reason and I'm not convinced it's all about the quality of their products because their products have flaws.

The Lyric to my ears does not achieve what they claim. If it does sound like a dynamic microphone in front of the sound hole it sounds like a damaged microphone in front of the sound-hole. I hear missing range in every sample... They needed to follow the Anthem with something and show innovation and their idea of that is the Lyric, but I think it's a product that really showcases how lack luster they are becoming. I'n not trying to make enemies, but even before some of my first hand problems with their products I've felt this way about the Lryic.

I like what I hear with the Anthem, a lot actually... Once you have a setup that gives you the ability to blend it's hard to go back. I've done a lot of research on Baggs products. It seems the microphone portion of the Anthem is just as prone to feedback as their pickup I just installed (iBeam). At least with the iBeam I can reposition the volume control and allow a sound suppressor to be plugged in to stop that, with the Anthem it would be impossible to put a sound suppressor in the way the unit mounts inside the sound hole.

So given that I'd look at other options on the market like the Anthem and that leads to what I think is the most interesting and best sounding pickup I've heard so far. The Fishman Ellipse Aura. It uses a mic and UST similar to the Anthem but to my ears is superior. I would say vastly, but I like the tone better from what I've able to compare it to in J-45s (A Brad Paisley model with Fishman Ellipse Aura and a J-45 TV which has an Anthem put in aftermarket). I really think the Fishman is a generation ahead. I think if more people were objective when listening and giving the Fishman a chance just trusting their ears they'd feel the same.
__________________
Wayne


J-45 song of the day archive
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis..._Zmxz51NAwG1UJ

My music
https://soundcloud.com/waynedeats76
https://www.facebook.com/waynedeatsmusic

My guitars
Gibson, Martin, Blueridge, Alvarez, Takamine
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 02-26-2014, 06:59 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,709
Default

[/I]ISo given that I'd look at other options on the market like the Anthem and that leads to what I think is the most interesting and best sounding pickup I've heard so far. The Fishman Ellipse Aura. It uses a mic and UST similar to the Anthem but to my ears is superior. I would say vastly, but I like the tone better from what I've able to compare it to in J-45s (A Brad Paisley model with Fishman Ellipse Aura and a J-45 TV which has an Anthem put in aftermarket). I really think the Fishman is a generation ahead. I think if more people were objective when listening and giving the Fishman a chance just trusting their ears they'd feel the same.[/I]

The Fishman Aura technology uses a process which they call "sound imaging" to simulate studio miking of the guitar being used with the Aura system. (Recording a studio-miked guitar is actually part of the process of creating the "sound image".) It would take too much time to fully explain the Aura technology here, but it should be said (to avoid confusion and misinformation) that there's no actual mic in the guitar with the Aura systems. The Anthem and Anthem SL systems do incorporate an actual mic.

Last edited by guitaniac; 02-26-2014 at 09:40 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 02-26-2014, 08:35 AM
Rmz76 Rmz76 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 3,946
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitaniac View Post
[ISo given that I'd look at other options on the market like the Anthem and that leads to what I think is the most interesting and best sounding pickup I've heard so far. The Fishman Ellipse Aura. It uses a mic and UST similar to the Anthem but to my ears is superior. I would say vastly, but I like the tone better from what I've able to compare it to in J-45s (A Brad Paisley model with Fishman Ellipse Aura and a J-45 TV which has an Anthem put in aftermarket). I really think the Fishman is a generation ahead. I think if more people were objective when listening and giving the Fishman a chance just trusting their ears they'd feel the same.][/I]

The Fishman Aura technology uses a process which they call "sound imaging" to simulate studio miking of the guitar being used with the Aura system. (Recording a studio-miked guitar is actually part of the process of creating the "sound image".) It would take too much time to fully explain the Aura technology here, but it should be said (to avoid confusion and misinformation) that there's no actual mic in the guitar with the Aura systems. The Anthem and Anthem SL systems do incorporate an actual mic.
Thanks for explaining that... Of course regardless of what the technology/magic is doing the ONLY thing that really matters is how well the pickup system reproducers the acoustic sound to the ears of the player and to listener.

It's a difficult problem to solve for these pickup/preamp manufactures but I'm at the point where I think the designers going down this path of trying to get a real real microphone in the guitar need to abandon that path. Whatever magic Fishman is doing I'm really liking it
__________________
Wayne


J-45 song of the day archive
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis..._Zmxz51NAwG1UJ

My music
https://soundcloud.com/waynedeats76
https://www.facebook.com/waynedeatsmusic

My guitars
Gibson, Martin, Blueridge, Alvarez, Takamine
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 02-26-2014, 10:30 AM
Joseph Hanna Joseph Hanna is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Belmont Shore, CA
Posts: 3,206
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmz76 View Post
the ONLY thing that really matters is how well the pickup system reproducers the acoustic sound to the ears of the player and to listener.
No that's not true for a whole bunch of players, myself included. I'm of the opinion that what really makes a pickup system thrive is the player and decidedly not the hardware. It's how any particular system/hardware interacts with the person who's in command.

The Aura systems (and the Mama Bear system) provide for an extremely distinct disconnect when it comes to the touch sensitivity of the guitar. For me it turns what I know my guitar to be (that is to say the response of my right hand to the instrument) into something completely and utterly different. The Aura system is slow to the touch and once I lose that connection I'm forced to adjust my right hand technique and how I approach my playing. Of course every system out there forces the user to invest in some manor re-thinking. But for me modeling takes me somewhere that I just can't recover from I used the Mama Bear forever in the studio if I needed a quick, down and dirty cue. I'd grit my teeth and bear it (from a players perspective) and wind up with a pretty convincing sound to tape. It wasn't however a very musically expressive process and I only resort to the Mama Bear because of time restraints.

In the end the imaging and modelers of the world are far too invasive (for me) to ever make sense as a solution. That said they may well be the ultimate answer for you and only time will tell. Good tone however will never be a singular piece of equipment that's purchased. There isn't nor will there ever be a holy grail. It more a process and a synergy that takes time and patience and applied talent than a box purchased from Guitar Center,
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 02-26-2014, 11:29 AM
Rmz76 Rmz76 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 3,946
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna View Post
No that's not true for a whole bunch of players, myself included. I'm of the opinion that what really makes a pickup system thrive is the player and decidedly not the hardware. It's how any particular system/hardware interacts with the person who's in command.

The Aura systems (and the Mama Bear system) provide for an extremely distinct disconnect when it comes to the touch sensitivity of the guitar. For me it turns what I know my guitar to be (that is to say the response of my right hand to the instrument) into something completely and utterly different. The Aura system is slow to the touch and once I lose that connection I'm forced to adjust my right hand technique and how I approach my playing. Of course every system out there forces the user to invest in some manor re-thinking...
In the end the imaging and modelers of the world are far too invasive (for me) to ever make sense as a solution. That said they may well be the ultimate answer for you and only time will tell. Good tone however will never be a singular piece of equipment that's purchased. There isn't nor will there ever be a holy grail. It more a process and a synergy that takes time and patience and applied talent than a box purchased from Guitar Center,
Greatly appreciate your comments.... We're all on this quest for the best tone. I want the responsiveness to playing with a inner mic that's crushing certain frequencies so I'm still not a fan of the Lyric.... Based on your comments and the collective comments here I'm about ready to just settle with what I have. Frustrating as it is.
__________________
Wayne


J-45 song of the day archive
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis..._Zmxz51NAwG1UJ

My music
https://soundcloud.com/waynedeats76
https://www.facebook.com/waynedeatsmusic

My guitars
Gibson, Martin, Blueridge, Alvarez, Takamine
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 02-26-2014, 12:00 PM
Joseph Hanna Joseph Hanna is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Belmont Shore, CA
Posts: 3,206
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmz76 View Post
Greatly appreciate your comments.... We're all on this quest for the best tone. I want the responsiveness to playing with a inner mic that's crushing certain frequencies so I'm still not a fan of the Lyric.... Based on your comments and the collective comments here I'm about ready to just settle with what I have. Frustrating as it is.
I'd never settle One of the points I always try to proffer is a pickup system (whatever it might be) is first and foremost, an exercise in patience and learning. There is a synergy and coming together the longer you work with a system. I've never, in all the years I've been doing audio, happened upon a solution that magically works out of the box. You can't "buy" good tone. It's not something that leaps from the package and works the second it's utilized.

Here is a recording of the Lyric. https://soundcloud.com/joseph-hanna/lyric It's absolutely flat. Zero eq. The only processing it has is a Lexicon room verb. If you listen till the end you'll here me tapping on the soundboard for reference. You can also hear the Pro Tools click track bleed through as I recorded this without headphones. I posted this recording way back when after having worked with the Lyric for some time and to make a point that it's a infinitely workable system if you're willing to invest some time, understanding and patience.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 02-26-2014, 12:25 PM
Rmz76 Rmz76 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 3,946
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna View Post
I'd never settle One of the points I always try to proffer is a pickup system (whatever it might be) is first and foremost, an exercise in patience and learning. There is a synergy and coming together the longer you work with a system. I've never, in all the years I've been doing audio, happened upon a solution that magically works out of the box. You can't "buy" good tone. It's not something that leaps from the package and works the second it's utilized.

Here is a recording of the Lyric. https://soundcloud.com/joseph-hanna/lyric It's absolutely flat. Zero eq. The only processing it has is a Lexicon room verb. If you listen till the end you'll here me tapping on the soundboard for reference. You can also hear the Pro Tools click track bleed through as I recorded this without headphones. I posted this recording way back when after having worked with the Lyric for some time and to make a point that it's a infinitely workable system if you're willing to invest some time, understanding and patience.
Very nice recording, thanks for sharing.

Have you played it on stage with a full band or solo? If so have you had any feedback problems with your Lyric when coming through an amp or PA?

I can see why people like the Lyric, but every time I hear a recording of one I immediately think "yep, that's a Lyric" because there's something strange going on with the higher frequencies. Words fail to describe sound but "a little too crispy" is my best attempt. Tried it on a guitar that I know did not sound as bright and "crispy" when unplugged so I don't like what it's doing to the tone... That is just me, though. It's a very, very bright pickup which may be perfect for a mix. Everyone has different needs and different ears.

The only thing that's clear to me is that we still aren't there yet.
__________________
Wayne


J-45 song of the day archive
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis..._Zmxz51NAwG1UJ

My music
https://soundcloud.com/waynedeats76
https://www.facebook.com/waynedeatsmusic

My guitars
Gibson, Martin, Blueridge, Alvarez, Takamine
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Acoustic Amplification

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=