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  #1  
Old 12-10-2017, 03:32 PM
lacatedral lacatedral is offline
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Arrow Heavy breathing sounds when recording.

Hi I'm currently trying to learn to record fingerstyle acoustic guitar and classical guitar.
I record with a match pair of Rode M5 for stereo.
I recorded this as a sound test with a classical guitar, kind of new strings (three weeks old), ORTF microphone tecnique, about 40-50 centimeters away from the guitar if I recall correctly:
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1DAO3Tfgtb8


Thing is, the microphones always catch my breathing which is kind of heavy.
The Rode M5 come with windshields, which I haven't tried yet, but I saw many recordings including this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASVhwkkgW50 and this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeoDvJPipxw which don't use them.
I'd like to know also if anyone tried with any vsti to solve this and your experiencies.

Any ideas?

Last edited by lacatedral; 12-10-2017 at 03:38 PM.
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  #2  
Old 12-10-2017, 03:50 PM
Andy Howell Andy Howell is offline
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The windshield’s won’t do anything.

This is a VERY common problem, indeed listen to many albums through good headphones and you can hear of lot of breathing.

Practice I’m afraid is the issue - I find breathing through clenched teeth or careful mouth breathing better than breathing through my nose.

I’ve been doing this for years but I still find I get a great take only to listen back and hear my breathing.

It is a bit like singing. Practice, practice, practice.
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Old 12-10-2017, 04:01 PM
sdelsolray sdelsolray is offline
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The best way to solve breathing issues is to solve the breathing issues.

Here are some suggestions:

1) Play a simple piece paying focused attention on your breathing. The goal is to breath evenly in terms of frequency, intensity and evenness given the athletic task you are performing. Many folks don't realize they have sporadic and inconsistent breathing when they play their guitar, and don't find this out until they record themselves playing. That is often years after they started playing. It's just a bad habit. Fortunately, it is a bad habit that is fairly easy to break for good.

2) Often the breathing issues are tied to upcoming more difficult musical passages or cadences within the piece. The goal is to breath evenly and consistently regardless of what you are playing.

3) Breathing through your mouth is usually less noisy than breathing through your nose.

There is not a "gear" solution for this, other than more distant mic placement or use of something like Ozone RX to isolate and remove the breathing sounds.

Excellent playing, by the way, and a decent recording.
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Old 12-10-2017, 05:36 PM
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Cocobolo Kid Cocobolo Kid is offline
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Smile Heavy breathing

Agree with all the above advice. Nice playing and song too.

The loudness of your breathing is indeed distracting in that recording. In addition to practcing quieting and evening out your breathing, a simple solution would be to move the mics closer to the guitar. Make sure you are using cardioid/directional mics (not omni) and have the off axis part of the mics pointing as close to your mouth as possible while still pointing the active part of the mic at the guitar. This may mean moving your Rode M5's higher and angling them downwards so the fronts are facing the guitar while the sides are facing your mouth. The goal is to make the guitar louder in the recording and to minimize the breathing sounds that the mics pick up. It will take a lot of experimentation to get a recorded guitar sound you like. You genereally do not want to point the mic directly at the sound hole; aiming toward the 14th fret is a popular choice. Also, if you get too close, the bass might start to sound boomy. I am sure the studio guys/gals will chime in with better or more specific advice.
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Last edited by Cocobolo Kid; 12-10-2017 at 05:50 PM.
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Old 12-10-2017, 06:23 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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It sounds like you have at least one of those mics pointed up at your nose. You're using a cardioid pair, so you should try to play with positioning to get your nose off-axis. I'd suggest bringing the mics up higher than the guitar and pointing them down to the instrument.

If that doesn't minimize the issue enough, practice taking slow breaths with your mouth while you're playing. Keep your mouth open a fair bit to make it less noisy.

I've seen people wrap scarves around their nose and mouths to muffle the noise. It's probably a bit hot and uncomfortable but that might work for you.

Another option might be to use a hypercardioid pair of mics which would have a more narrow focus and would help keep the breathing off the track.

And if none of that works, you can do multiple takes and create a composite track from the portions where the breathing isn't an issue.
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Old 12-11-2017, 11:04 AM
Northward Northward is offline
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Default Heavy breathing sounds when recording.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lacatedral View Post
.


Thing is, the microphones always catch my breathing.



Any ideas?
I would suggest a plugin I just bought by a Swedish company, Klevgrand called Brusfri (literally hum free). It’s surprisingly straight forward to use with impressive results.

What it does is to learn by analysing a part of the recording with just your unwanted breathing or room noise. Then Abra-cadabra...it’s gone! Additional fine tuning is of course possible to avoid shaving too much off transients.
I’ve never tried anything as easy to apply with such impressive results before. Maybe it’ll work for you.

https://youtu.be/CJ9zkDtdA3E

NB: no affiliation here.

I’ve also read advice from sound guys that suggests that many guitarist overthink their recording of acoustic guitars by thinking more mics and advanced stereo placement are better. Suggesting a more modest approach with mono recording avoiding such problems. On the other hand breathing and such have a certain human element that many people might find intriguing. Take a listen to some of the famous groaning Jazz pianist out there..
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Last edited by Northward; 12-11-2017 at 11:27 AM.
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Old 12-11-2017, 01:22 PM
RRuskin RRuskin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lacatedral View Post
Hi I'm currently trying to learn to record fingerstyle acoustic guitar and classical guitar.
I record with a match pair of Rode M5 for stereo.
I recorded this as a sound test with a classical guitar, kind of new strings (three weeks old), ORTF microphone tecnique, about 40-50 centimeters away from the guitar if I recall correctly:
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1DAO3Tfgtb8


Thing is, the microphones always catch my breathing which is kind of heavy.
The Rode M5 come with windshields, which I haven't tried yet, but I saw many recordings including this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASVhwkkgW50 and this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeoDvJPipxw which don't use them.
I'd like to know also if anyone tried with any vsti to solve this and your experiencies.

Any ideas?
I've recorded heavy breathers who wear surgical or particle masks when in front of the mic(s). It helps them breath slower and quieter. You could also try a pair of figure-8 mics position so that your mouth is in the null of each.
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Old 12-11-2017, 05:39 PM
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Mbroady Mbroady is offline
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I have the same issue and have 2 solutions.

1) stick a (clean) sock in your mouth and breath through it. It won't eliminate breathing sounds but it minimizes what the mic pics up and keeps you aware of your breathing. FYI it does not have to be a sock.
2) singers learn to breath and exhale. One of the key concepts in good singing is to keep your soft palet lifted (making a gu sound, as in the word guitar can help connect. Other words such as guy, gay and goo.....help). If you can maintain a lifted soft palet whlle inhaling and exhaling through your mouth it will go a long way to getting rid of the breathing sounds. It takes time and practice. Google lift soft palet and you can find loads of info.
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Last edited by Mbroady; 12-11-2017 at 05:44 PM.
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Old 12-11-2017, 06:22 PM
DupleMeter DupleMeter is offline
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Okay here's what I'm hearing:

#1 You're breathing is erratic - like you're nervous or tense. You need to relax and let the tension go. Tension makes you use up oxygen faster & those quick & shallow breathes are very inefficient requiring more frequent breaths.

#2 You're not breathing with the phrasing of the melody. There should be a rhythm to your breathing. Breath like your singing. Make your breaths gentler, slower and "belly breathe", all the way from your diaphragm not just shallow breaths from your chest.

These are both things I used to harp on about with my students. How you breathe makes a difference to your playing. Controlling your breath is so important to continued success in performance situations.

Very nice playing, BTW.

HTH
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Old 12-13-2017, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lacatedral View Post
…the microphones always catch my breathing which is kind of heavy.
…Any ideas?
Hi lacatedral

I didn't realize I was breathing so loudly when I play till after I did my first decent recordings. It's not limited to you…many instrumentalists breathe heavily or percussively when they play.

You can use uni-direction capsules/mics and be sure to aim them away from your mouth/nose region, but that's only a partial solution, because good mics pick up pretty much everything within range.

I had to make myself pay attention to my breathing when playing (since I was playing in an instrumental duo).

I've got acoustic guitar recordings I purchased over the years with varying degrees of detectable breathing in them. Like string-squeak it's a matter of minimizing it because some of it is inevitable.



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Old 12-13-2017, 10:13 AM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
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The best way I've some up with to deal with this is to use a mic with a fig. 8 pattern and point the null at the player's mouth. The null can be either the top or the side of the mic, it works either way.

This also works well if you have someone who sings loud and plays soft.
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Old 12-30-2017, 07:53 PM
David MacNeill David MacNeill is offline
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Heavy compression/limiting increases breath and string noise. I always record guitars and voices without any dynamic processing — I can always add it during mixing.

Last edited by David MacNeill; 12-30-2017 at 08:03 PM.
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Old 12-30-2017, 08:54 PM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David MacNeill View Post
Heavy compression/limiting increases breath and string noise. I always record guitars and voices without any dynamic processing — I can always add it during mixing.
"Heavy" compression going in might not be a great idea regardless. But whether you compress going in or later, the breathing, string noises, any other garbage... they're all still there.
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Old 12-30-2017, 09:01 PM
David MacNeill David MacNeill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
But whether you compress going in or later, the breathing, string noises, any other garbage... they're all still there.
Indeed. I find that stuff easier to deal with in post processing.
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Old 12-30-2017, 09:09 PM
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I've moved my mics back a bit and try to play a bit louder to bury whatever breathing I can't control. I still get it at times but it isn't as bad as it used to be.
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