Why Stradivarius violins sound so good. Hint: It’s the f-shape

[kkfan]

Since archtops are based on violins, from which they borrow most notably the arch and the f-shaped sound holes, I thought this research was very relevant to this forum.

Here's an excerpt:

Nicholas Makris is a professor of mechanical and ocean engineering at MIT, known as an expert in acoustics. A decade ago Makris picked up the lute, initially having resolved to learn how to play the instrument with no consideration for acoustic. “I’m just going to play the thing,” Makris remembers. The good professor couldn’t help himself, however, and soon enough he found himself discussing with lutemakers and musicians at large about what was once Europe’s most popular musical instrument. Apart from its acoustic capabilities, the lute is appreciated for its intricate carvings. Inevitably, having learned Makris was an acoustic expert, a musician approached him with a question: Do the carvings within a lute’s sound hole make a difference to the overall sound produced? This question led Makris on a seven-year quest to document the acoustics of the lute, but also the oud, medieval fiddle, guitar and ultimately the violin.

In time, a massive catalog of technical drawings, along with X-ray and CAT scans of the instruments was formed. They compared the dimensions of various features from one instrument to another, as well as measurements of acoustic resonances across instruments. Concerning the violin, Makris and colleagues discovered the key feature that affects its sound is its “f” shaped opening through which air escapes. The more elongated these are, the more sound a violin can produce. What’s more, an elongated sound hole takes up little space on the violin, while still producing a full sound — a design that the researchers found to be more power-efficient than the rounder sound holes of the violin’s ancestors, such as medieval fiddles, lyres, and rebecs.

Here's the link to the full article. Hope y'all enjoy reading it.

http://www.zmescience.com/science/wh...o-good-423432/

[lumena]

nice little article.

[The Growler]

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

[Steve DeRosa]

I wonder how many current archtop builders have really given any serious thought to approaching F-hole design from an acoustical, rather than aesthetic, standpoint...

[jaybones]

Probably not many. People have an expectation as to what an f hole is supposed to look like. If I saw an elongated f hole rather than a shorter and wider one I would think that the elongated looked somehow off.

[kkfan]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

I wonder how many current archtop builders have really given any serious thought to approaching F-hole design from an acoustical, rather than aesthetic, standpoint...

An interesting point Steve.

In his book, "Making An Archtop Guitar," Robert Benedetto writes, "Each of us has our own feelings about design which is why the 'F' hole has become one of the many identifying features of each individual maker."

He further states that, "If the 'F' hole openings are too narrow, the instrument's voice will be choked. The guitar will not be as responsive, especially in the higher register.
If the 'F' hole openings are too wide, the guitar may have less projection."

So, at least in Benedetto's case, some consideration seems to have been given to the acoustical properties of the shape and size of the sound hole.

[Archtop Guy]

That the f hole size and placement effects the sound of an archtop is a well known fact among makers. This is one of those unfortunate pieces of science where the authors could of started by asking the luthiers a few questions. OTOH, if the goal is to build precise physical models and understand the effects, I guess the article's authors have achieved their goal.

In fact if you look at Gibson, Epiphone, Vega, guitars of yore, it is quite clear that the f holes are all subtly different in shape, size, and placement. Then D'Angelico and D'Aquisto pushed the envelop even farther, and they knew exactly what they were doing, no accidents there.

With respect to the reporting on the original article though, the title "why stradivarius violins sound so good" is completely BS. The vast majority of violins have used the exact dimension of a Strad since the early 18th century, and still the original Strad's are the ones everyone is still talking about. Obviously there is a lot more going on than the size and shape of the f hole.

[Electar]

Originally Posted by Archtop Guy

That the f hole size and placement effects the sound of an archtop is a well known fact among makers. This is one of those unfortunate pieces of science where the authors could of started by asking the luthiers a few questions. OTOH, if the goal is to build precise physical models and understand the effects, I guess the article's authors have achieved their goal.

In fact if you look at Gibson, Epiphone, Vega, guitars of yore, it is quite clear that the f holes are all subtly different in shape, size, and placement. Then D'Angelico and D'Aquisto pushed the envelop even farther, and they knew exactly what they were doing, no accidents there.

With respect to the reporting on the original article though, the title "why stradivarius violins sound so good" is completely BS. The vast majority of violins have used the exact dimension of a Strad since the early 18th century, and still the original Strad's are the ones everyone is still talking about. Obviously there is a lot more going on than the size and shape of the f hole.

The wood was soaked in German beer and brat juice for 50 years before Strad would use it. Or maybe that was what Strad was soaked in.

[sausgirl]

Hey all,
There are actually many different reasons a violin sounds like it does,including the placement of the [I]f[I] holes,thickness of wood,types of varnish and thickness of it's application .A recent CAT scan showed the thickness of wood between Stradivari and Amati.Stradivari's top and back were almost paper thin.I worked as a violin-makers apprentice.My first "job" was to graduate(re-tool) the top of my own instrument which was a factory made fiddle. Thinning out the top made it vibrate better,hence an improvement in sound. I will see if I can find some of my info on fiddles F holes etc.If wanted?
Regards,
Jan

[Steve Berger]

The Italian Alpine Spruce doesn't hurt either.

[JLT]

So it wasn't old growth timber, or drying submerged timber, or special varnish, or...

But I do get the gist of the article. It shows how the f-hole evolved into the classic Strad shape. But luthiers have been using that shape for centuries, and they haven't matched the Strat's sound.

Or have they? In recent double-blind tests, where neither the violinist nor the audience knew if the violin being played was a Strad or a high-end modern violin, the two types came out about even in the assessment of both the musician and the audience.

And there was an interesting video circulating where another acoustics engineer worked onstage with a violinist, improving the tone by removing minute amounts from the inside of the soundboard with a special tool. He'd whittle, she'd play, he'd whittle some more, and with each pass, the tone apparently improved, at least in the opinion of the audience (although I really couldn't tell from the video, since my MacBook's speakers weren't up to that task). The engineer said that he'd inspected Strads that had the same tell-tale whittlings inside the soundboard and was convinced that Stradivari was fine-tuning his instruments that way.

[Howard Klepper]

Originally Posted by kkfan

Since archtops are based on violins, from which they borrow most notably the arch and the f-shaped sound holes, I thought this research was very relevant to this forum.

Here's an excerpt:



Here's the link to the full article. Hope y'all enjoy reading it.

http://www.zmescience.com/science/wh...o-good-423432/

That article explained nothing. It offered no reasons for the conclusions, and never indicated that the experimenters ever thought about why so many Strad (etc.) copies (wth identical f-holes) fall short of the originals. Oh, wait--they discovered that the backs affect the sound! The thicker the back, the better! A lot of builders will be happy to learn that.

It's always nice to see Strad's secret discovered.