K&K combined with DPA 4099

[Vtckf]

I’ve decided to get an aer c60 and a Felix. Unsure about pickups. Am probably going with the k&k for the pickup. Am considering the dpa 4099 clip on or the 4061 inside. Which would you pick and why. I only expect to use it in low volume restaurant solo finger style applications. Thanks

[pieterh]

I would definitely go for the 4099 externally. The 4061 can be fitted so it it picking up from the inside but you would probably end up with an exaggerated low end response.

The 4099 has a good off axis-response, ie the level is lower but the frequency response is fairly linear - this is why the advice is to point it at the neck roughly where the neck joins the body. Being directional there is a proximity effect but this is negated by tte positioning. In other words the microphone pics up the low end from the sound hole and body from the side but at a lower level than the sounds coming in directly from the front. The result is a pretty well balanced sound.

The 4061 is omnidirectional so gives a more linear response anyway but sitting in the box is not ideal - a guitar’s sound is experienced outside the box (ha ha...). I would imagine you’d need to eq hard to make the sound usable.

[Doug Young]

I think this depends on your goals and preferences. The 4099 is likely to sound better - for low volume, it should be perfect by itself, no need for the pickup. It can, however, be a bit awkward. You have an extra cable to deal with, the attachment tends to come off. With some playing styles it may be in the way. Personally, in situations where i could use a 4099, i just use a mic on a stand, its easier to position and deal with. Ive actually never Had much luck using any external mic with an amp, hard to get volume without feedback, and the tone of the mic doesnt come thru as well as with a PA, but it probably depends on how quiet you play.

An internal mic is more transparent to use, just plug in a trs cable, and you're ready to go. The mic alone doesn't sound so good, but usually you're just trying to add some air, and a bit of mic added to a k&k tends to help quite a lot (so does tonedexter, with no mic needed) . With Felix, the high pass filter tends to make the internal mic work pretty well, just crank it up to the point that the low boom goes away, and blend to taste with the k&k.

[guitarman68]

I would go for the 4061, especially when used with the Felix. Doug Young as always nailed it: HPF set to where the boom disappears, and off you go. I use the setting (Felix, DPA, Dazzo or K&K) gigging solo, duo, trio, quartet (all acoustic band settings), 50 % mic dialed in, and never had an issue with feedback (using QSC K8 as personal monitor). I even used it in studio applications (where I normally use Schoeps and Neumann KM84s) when recording singer/songwriters.
I never liked the mounting of the 4099 on guitar and mandolin, it's ok on fiddles.

[Jack Orion]

Originally Posted by guitarman68

I would go for the 4061, especially when used with the Felix. Doug Young as always nailed it: HPF set to where the boom disappears, and off you go. I use the setting (Felix, DPA, Dazzo or K&K) gigging solo, duo, trio, quartet (all acoustic band settings), 50 % mic dialed in, and never had an issue with feedback (using QSC K8 as personal monitor). I even used it in studio applications (where I normally use Schoeps and Neumann KM84s) when recording singer/songwriters.
I never liked the mounting of the 4099 on guitar and mandolin, it's ok on fiddles.

I also use this setup - K&K with an internal 4061 (I found two on eBay for less than £150) into a Felix.

The internal mic sounds pretty poor on its own but I find it adds some space to the very dry and direct sound of the K&K - it almost works like a touch of reverb in some ways although I find I need less reverb with this setup than I did with the K&K alone.

I HPF the mic, but I also very slightly boost at 400hz which is an area I cut a little bit on the pickup.

Here's a demo I recorded a little while ago (some of my starting point EQ settings have changed now) of this setup in my two guitars:

https://benmorganbrown.co.uk/kk-dpa-demo/

It's straight in so it sounds at its worst - it sounds a lot better in a real space through an amp or PA.

[stringbound]

I've got the DPA 4099G Core and I'm very happy with the mic. I use it to add some air and openness to the ES2 in my Taylor. It's a great little mic, that is very resistent to feedback. I have been using it in quite noise situations and never experienced any issues. The worst situation was when I played at a music fair for Taylor guitars. Three stages, two with rockband, while I was playing on the third stage. No issues with the 4099 either.

Soundwise I would always prefer an external mic. Normaly you don't have to EQ the 4099, you can control the sound by turning the gooseneck. This year I've had the pleasure to showcase the 4099 for DPA at a fair in Cologne and I learned a lot about the mic and what it is capable of. To be frank, you won't need the Felix. A normal DI will do, or maybe a Para Acoustic DI.

I also use the 4099 with my Fishman SA330X with the SA Xpand channel extension. Another thing I love about my 4099 and 4288 is that I don't need mic stands.

Sorry for editing, I'm struggeling with the German autocorrection of my mobile.