Tempo do you really have to keep it steady when solo?

Mischief · #1 09-03-2015, 05:48 PM

So this is a serious question.
I used to play classical violin for years in a symphony orchestra and tempo was extremely important. However nuances of tempo etc could be adjusted by the conductor.
In a band they play off the tempo of the drummer but also may develop subtle changes as a group when they develop the songs they play.

Here's the thing I now play solo and I know for a fact my tempo is quite free. I've never worried about it as I only played for myself and I allowed the tempo to change to impart feeling. A bit like a water flowing.

But now I'm starting to play out for people and I don't won't to irritate the subconscious of people.
I have tried playing my songs to a steady beat. They definitely sound different and personally I like them with a more free tempo. What sounds better to me may not sound better to others.

I'm not talking about so subtle changes like we had in an orchestra. A bit more than that. I'd say a jamming drummer trying to stay in time with me would have his work cut out for him. But also if we played together regularly would feel and adjust to what I was doing.

To clarify its not a matter of not being able to keep tempo but more of how I currently choose to adjust tempo.
Am I alone in this? Would this irritate you? Should I reign in my tempo whilst still allowing feeling? Inquiring minds want to know........
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HHP · #2 09-03-2015, 05:58 PM

Pretty common. Listen to some John Fahey, he used tempo as an effect in a lot of his tunes.

rick-slo · #3 09-03-2015, 06:02 PM

Definitely not. You are allowed to be expressive. Does depend on the tune and style of music.

For example listen to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cOm-_4fw5g

Gypsyblue · #4 09-03-2015, 06:15 PM

I agree.

A resounding "NO"!

I do think that playing in tempo is a skill that one should strive to achieve...just like playing in tune.

But I'll take feeling and expression over the strict time of a metronome or click track...long as you're playing music worth listening to.

I like music that breathes and sounds human.

Glennwillow · #5 09-03-2015, 06:28 PM

Hi Mischief,

Being able to vary tempo to be more expressive is exactly why I like to play solo. I can play with a metronome in my head and I bet you can, too. But then we kind of sound like wind-up toys.

Nah, I like the freedom of varying tempo to my heart's content. Truth is, I don't vary it all that much, just where it matters to me.

- Glenn

email4eric · #6 09-03-2015, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

Hi Mischief,

Being able to vary tempo to be more expressive is exactly why I like to play solo. I can play with a metronome in my head and I bet you can, too. But then we kind of sound like wind-up toys.

Nah, I like the freedom of varying tempo to my heart's content. Truth is, I don't vary it all that much, just where it matters to me.

- Glenn

What Glenn said...exactly!

DesolationAngel · #7 09-03-2015, 09:09 PM

I was reading an audio production book, recently, and one of the old producers in there said something about how players and bands varying tempi is a lost art...

Another quote I've seen floating around is, "art isn't found in a grid" (referring to perfect quantization).

Take those as you wish. Personally I think tempo is just another way to express something... like a key or a time signature change.

blue · #8 09-03-2015, 09:11 PM

Well...

First off, of course do what you want.

But...

If you subscribe to the theories about chemical changes, and the resulting mood, and developmental changes that can be triggered in the brain with poly-rhythms, then yes. Rock solid tempo is critical.

If you want to make "O"/John Mayer faces, and be all emotional and dramatic in your playing... No...

And you don't have to go either way all the time... One of my favorite players once said the immortal line "Lightnin' changes when Lightnin' wants to change"

Be like Lightnin'

worshipvertical · #9 09-03-2015, 09:13 PM

In modern music most Pop music utilized a strict and constant time signature and tempo. There are some exceptions to this by daring artists but otherwise it is fairly standard.

This is not true in classical music and certainly not true in Jazz. Jazz musicians refer to this as "flex time". It kinda sometimes go hand in hand with the concept of there never being "any mistake".

As such it can get out of hand but in the hands of a great musician it is a musical statement that serves the song.

min7b5 · #10 09-03-2015, 09:13 PM

I do think it is important to be able to be expressive with time. However, for many solo guitar players groove is a big problem. Being expressive here and there, as a conscious temporary deviation from a solid groove, can be fantastic. But for so many (dare I saw "most") players, being in semi-solid groove as the baseline feel makes the "expressive" parts seem, worse. This is all just my opinion, your millage may very. And I'm very far from perfect, but I can say for sure that when I started spending close to as much working on time as I did on chords and notes I definitely feel like I got more traction with audiences.

Jeff56 · #11 09-04-2015, 05:40 AM

I'll vary tempo on certain songs when I'm playing alone but I try to reign that in when playing with others, especially if there's a drummer.

Bingoccc · #12 09-04-2015, 05:51 AM

I was watching a Sam Bush interview recently. His take was that the soloist is usually free from the tempo but, he personally feels a responsibility to stay in tempo as best as he can. He thinks it sounds better.

I think music is art. You're free to do what feels right. But you shouldn't feel free to screw up the playing of others.

ukejon · #13 09-04-2015, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

Hi Mischief,

Being able to vary tempo to be more expressive is exactly why I like to play solo. I can play with a metronome in my head and I bet you can, too. But then we kind of sound like wind-up toys.

Nah, I like the freedom of varying tempo to my heart's content. Truth is, I don't vary it all that much, just where it matters to me.

- Glenn

So true....but with a big caveat. Any tempo changes need to be fully intentional and controlled. There are times when I'm playing a solo piece and speed up a part. That doesn't sound good or interesting because it comes from a lack of full rhythmic control at that moment. When I am varying the pace of a section on purpose, that feels more artistic and right.

It is worth noting that Tommy Emmanuel plays around with tempo all the time in his songs.....BUT he also practices with a metronome almost every day.

The Bard Rocks · #14 09-04-2015, 05:59 AM

Be yourself, play the way if feels and sounds best to you. HOWEVER, if folks are dancing, that's another matter. And I wouldn't do every piece rubato, keep it mixed and changing, with at least a few employing a regular tempo. If it's music that people want to clap or move to, the regular tempo is generally best.

Howard Emerson · #15 09-04-2015, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mischief

So this is a serious question.
I used to play classical violin for years in a symphony orchestra and tempo was extremely important. However nuances of tempo etc could be adjusted by the conductor.
In a band they play off the tempo of the drummer but also may develop subtle changes as a group when they develop the songs they play.

Here's the thing I now play solo and I know for a fact my tempo is quite free. I've never worried about it as I only played for myself and I allowed the tempo to change to impart feeling. A bit like a water flowing.

But now I'm starting to play out for people and I don't won't to irritate the subconscious of people.
I have tried playing my songs to a steady beat. They definitely sound different and personally I like them with a more free tempo. What sounds better to me may not sound better to others.

I'm not talking about so subtle changes like we had in an orchestra. A bit more than that. I'd say a jamming drummer trying to stay in time with me would have his work cut out for him. But also if we played together regularly would feel and adjust to what I was doing.

To clarify its not a matter of not being able to keep tempo but more of how I currently choose to adjust tempo.
Am I alone in this? Would this irritate you? Should I reign in my tempo whilst still allowing feeling? Inquiring minds want to know........
[emoji16]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If your tempo changes are actually a 'choice' you make, then that's something you'd better be very self-confident about.

If you start worrying about what the audience reaction to that might be, THAT could be really problematic.

If your tempo 'breathes', it might be the sort of thing that will take the audience right along with you. If the music & playing are engaging, they will be there with you on every twist & turn.

If you start to worry about what they're thinking, you've lost them before you've started, and it will show in your musical demeanor.

I am a groove player & writer: I grew up as a frustrated drummer & bass player, so my compositions always have a 'drum track' in my head, but my tempo ABSOLUTELY breathes, sometimes more than I'd like.

Most of the time, though, I think the audience goes along with it, never really noticing. Here's an example where I'm sure I've sped up 5-10% by the halfway point:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZ9DI-pcDVw

Stick to your guns!

HE