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  #31  
Old 12-21-2017, 06:41 PM
Tahitijack Tahitijack is online now
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One of the ways to own a song by others is to just announce the song title but not the artist that covered it. Some songs have been big hits by several artists. You don't want some music expert yelling hey that was recorded by James Taylor man! We sometimes tell a quick story about song like the theme from The Endless Summer.
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  #32  
Old 12-21-2017, 09:39 PM
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Interesting that some seem to think covering a song and making it your own, as opposed to copying note for note and timing etc. is something even remotely new ??? It has been going on since recording started.
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  #33  
Old 01-01-2018, 10:39 AM
varmonter varmonter is offline
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i find the reason i cover a song is because
like the song the way it is. i have a few
songs i have changed drastically and most
folks seem to recognize them anyway.
"Glendale Train" by NRPS is one that comes to mind.
i find the general audience responds better to
songs they know. Covers of songs like layla or
margaritaville or sweet home alabama are best done like the original.
after you learn a song and your at the point
where it is just part of your setlist,that at this point
is where you start to make it your own. subtle changes
over time may not be noticeable to you.
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  #34  
Old 01-02-2018, 08:56 PM
jstroop jstroop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennwillow View Post
Hi Reasley,

When I learn someone else's song, I learn it their way, at least at the beginning. When I learn someone else's song, one of the things I want is to learn from them.

The trouble is, at least for me, is that I have been playing long enough and have developed enough of my own singing and playing style that even when I intend to make a carbon copy of someone else's song, after a while, the song sounds more like me than it sounds like the original artist. I don't necessarily do it on purpose; it just happens.

A good example... Someone suggested I learn "The Highwayman". Of the versions I found on YouTube, I liked Glen Campbell's version and intended to play it like he did. Here is Glen Campbell's live version:

After just a day if immersion on this song, probably 8 hours of playing this and being taken over by this song, this is what I ended up recording:


You can certainly recognize that this is "The Highwayman" but it doesn't sound very much like a Glen Campbell carbon copy, at least to me. Again, I was not intending to create something different, this is just what came out when I let the song take control of me.

Regarding Eric's version of Rocky Mountain High, I liked it. My version of Rocky Mountain High sounds somewhat closer to John Denver's, but mine's not a carbon copy, either. Mine sounds closer because I always liked the flat picking at the front end of the song and I wanted to do that.

When it comes to James Taylor songs, I love his playing style, and so I tend to emulate his playing as much as possible. But while I like his voice to listen to, I have never tried to emulate his singing style. It has been his songs and his playing that have turned me on over the years. His voice, for me, is not one of his big selling points. So, when I sing a JT song, my playing has a JT flavor but I don't think that my singing particularly does.

The lesson I have learned over the years is that you are never going to appeal to everyone. You have to be yourself. The truth is, most of us are not all that interesting to other people, but even so, trying to be someone else just does not work very well.

So my approach to doing covers is to adapt to someone else's song as best I can while continuing to hold onto my own personality. I tried the other approach -- to make music that I thought other people wanted to hear -- and I wasn't all that happy with the result. I'm much happier just being whoever I am, even if I will never be famous. Fame is over rated, anyway.

In my opinion, the only reason to do a carbon copy of someone else's song is to prove that you are a good enough player and singer to pull it off. This is what I did when I was younger and first learning. But after you have proven to yourself that you can do this, I found that it's rather unrewarding. I would rather be myself.

I do covers because I want to play good songs. I used to write my own songs, and still do occasionally, but I found out that writing really good songs is hard, hard work. I don't want to work that hard now. But I still want to learn new music, so doing covers is a way to get what I want without so much hard work.

My two cents, anyway...

- Glenn
This is one of the best picker/singer essays I have ever read. Glenn, I plan to steal about 95% of this for my own purposes.
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  #35  
Old 01-03-2018, 01:59 AM
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Great thread. I grew up a classically trained musician, and exact covers are kind of the standard M.O. for classical music. But now that I really don’t do the classical music, except for classical guitar, I’ve had to draw from both my training and my fellow improv musician. I think the best I can do is to listen to the original and learn it as exactly as possible, similar to what Glennwillow mentioned. I want to understand the original direction of the tune. But my partner and I take it out of the box at that point, usually into the swing category. We have our own style. In fact, we even do a swing version of Pachelbel’s Canon that is ever-evolving, depending on my mood.

If people want to hear the recorded version of something, they can get the CD. Live music isn’t and shouldn’t be subject to that sort of thing, unless you are a classical performer, and then good luck with living your life as a music clone.

I don’t always agree with other people’s interpretations of songs, but it’s refreshing to hear their versions. That’s the beautiful thing about music.
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  #36  
Old 01-03-2018, 07:49 AM
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Me/We, usually just change the key, add some repeats to make it longer for dancing... Leads/instrumentals the best we can..which is pretty close.

Now that I'm a solo Rhythm Singer... I do the best I can with the intro's, adjust key, and adjust some phasing if it's giving me trouble,
But overall my covers have the essence of the original... and nobody complained

I really liked that Billie Jean link.... Great Duo! wish I had a female singer like that ....
https://youtu.be/441mR2zsQbg
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  #37  
Old 01-03-2018, 08:17 AM
dkstott dkstott is offline
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I play strictly fingerstyle and rarely sing, so it's always been about learning the song & fingerstyle arrangement exactly as written to begin with for me.

Once I have it down, I can begin to make changes to suit my tastes regarding flow, tonal adjustments chord selection etc...
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  #38  
Old 01-04-2018, 05:11 PM
jfitz81 jfitz81 is offline
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I'll throw in my 2 cents, just because I'm still surprised there are people (evidently a great many people!) who expect covers to be faithful reproductions of an original recording and are annoyed--offended, even--when they're not.

I guess I get the sentiment--I imagine they feel the same way I do when some song I hate sells a billion copies worldwide. But the "carbon copy" mentality kinda throws out a few hundred years' (or more?) worth of musical tradition, doesn't it? Having a "definitive" version of a given song is a relatively new phenomenon, now that we have records, or cassettes, or CDs, or whatever.

I'm not being disrespectful to Robert Burns--or whoever wrote it--if I alter a word or two in "Auld Lang Syne" because I don't feel like learning 18th-century Ayrshire Scots. Nobody cares, either, because Bob never paid for the studio time to lay it down on vinyl. Modern recording, copyrights, etc., are mostly great things for music. But they shouldn't make you feel like you can't go out and sing a great song without sitting down and learning a particular recorded version note-for-note. I'll bet John Denver didn't play "Rocky Mountain High" the same way twice, and I'd be a little disappointed if he did.

(This, of course, will never ever convince the people I'm disagreeing with, so kindly carry on.)
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  #39  
Old 01-05-2018, 07:24 AM
CASD57 CASD57 is offline
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Once I get the basic phasing,... and basic style I quit listening to the original, it just gets in the way and I don't want to sound, word for word...line for line like the original, because at that point I would be just learning the artist's style/nuances of his or her voice..
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  #40  
Old 01-05-2018, 08:03 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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I feel very strongly about this subject, so thanks to the OP for starting it.

When I sing and perform, I feel that I am a story teller. Yes I play guitar too but that is only because I learnt to play guitar because it enabled me to sing songs .... or stories.

I've written any songs in my time but nw I mostly do covers.

I don't necessarily sing in the same key as the original nless it happens to suit me.
I don't necessarily do it at the same tempo.
I don't necessarily play it the same way

Tablature is a waste of time to me, I can't read notation, let me get the progression and write the lyrics (which I may change to be more appropriate to my largely British audience) - then as Sarah Jarosz says - "build it up from the bones"

I live in an English city which happens to have one of the finest theatres in the country and I've been privileged to be called upon to do some acting sometimes with some famous actors.

A song with a real message (I don't do preachy or protest) is like telling it like it is about you. If there is an emotion in the story , it should be acted into the song. (NOTE: these "rules" are for me - I'm not dictating).

There are some songs that are (to my mind) wasted if sung straight.

An example is "don't think twice - it's alright" By some bloke called Dylan.

To me this is a very bitter angry song about the end of a relationship.

This is a song that should be sung through gritted teeth, with that frustration showing.
It is often played too fast and too happy.
This is the best version I ever heard :

If it is a happy song - make it happy, if it ain't do t'other thing.

The important thing is to "sell the song" make it get through to the audience.

Oh, BTW - if interested - here's my sombre version :

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  #41  
Old 01-05-2018, 08:50 AM
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KevWind KevWind is offline
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Hey Silly M. could not agree more . Both Allen Taylor's and your versions are very interesting and believable . Whatever "drift" there is from Dylan is an asset.
Heck, Dylan himself was notorious for more often than not , producing very different performances of his songs.

While precise replication can certainly represent a high degree of craftsmanship it does not necessarily represent a high level of artistry.

To me precise replication is the job of recording devices not humans.

Also for example : It is in fact the galactic difference from Dylan's version, yet recognizability, that makes Jimi Hendrix's "All Along The Watchtower " so iconic.
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  #42  
Old 01-05-2018, 08:52 AM
CASD57 CASD57 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly Moustache View Post
I feel very strongly about this subject, so thanks to the OP for starting it.

When I sing and perform, I feel that I am a story teller. Yes I play guitar too but that is only because I learnt to play guitar because it enabled me to sing songs .... or stories.

I've written any songs in my time but nw I mostly do covers.

I don't necessarily sing in the same key as the original nless it happens to suit me.
I don't necessarily do it at the same tempo.
I don't necessarily play it the same way

Tablature is a waste of time to me, I can't read notation, let me get the progression and write the lyrics (which I may change to be more appropriate to my largely British audience) - then as Sarah Jarosz says - "build it up from the bones"

I live in an English city which happens to have one of the finest theatres in the country and I've been privileged to be called upon to do some acting sometimes with some famous actors.

A song with a real message (I don't do preachy or protest) is like telling it like it is about you. If there is an emotion in the story , it should be acted into the song. (NOTE: these "rules" are for me - I'm not dictating).

There are some songs that are (to my mind) wasted if sung straight.

An example is "don't think twice - it's alright" By some bloke called Dylan.

To me this is a very bitter angry song about the end of a relationship.

This is a song that should be sung through gritted teeth, with that frustration showing.
It is often played too fast and too happy.
This is the best version I ever heard :

If it is a happy song - make it happy, if it ain't do t'other thing.

The important thing is to "sell the song" make it get through to the audience.

Oh, BTW - if interested - here's my sombre version :

I couldn't agree more and we both learned guitar for the same reasons ,,,
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  #43  
Old 01-05-2018, 09:32 AM
jfitz81 jfitz81 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitar View Post
There's copying and then there's covering. When I was coming up there was no such thing as covering. If you didn't copy the song (replicate it) then you simply did not play it and expect to be taken as a serious student of the guitar and the artists. The point of the whole thing was to give the songs their due and creative license was not an acceptable dodge, or excuse. You did your best to replicate the songs you set out to learn.

Your girlfriend's response to an original artist's cover by someone is the response you're going to get from an ardent fan dissatisfied with the cover's treatment of the song. It is what it is. I play JD's songs as he plays and sings them. Again, I was raised in a time when replication was the rule of the day.

Covering, watering down copying, relaxed the obsession of paying tribute to an original artist's works in the same audible renderings he or she gave them to us. I cringed when I came back to music in 2004 after a 30 year hiatus. The notion of covering was a ground swell supporting anyone who could cobble together the three chords necessary to poorly cover a song and, tethered at the hip of that whole new movement, political correctness cleared the path against champions of copying.

Somewhere in that time frame finger picking was re-coined as the high brow finger style; picking being possibly below the permissible verbiage of the haute of strings. Moreover, those championing the re-coining actually believe it was to re-frame a new concept of using fingers to pick (pluck) the strings. Right. Bluegrass to country to folk to rock to classical to blues to any manner of displacing strings with the fingers, it's all finger picking that does not need to be re-framed as anything more or less, or different. But, there it is: finger style.

I do my best to copy original works and I do it for me, not an audience. Some will counter that with the argument that it does nothing to display artistry of the player. I disagree. If you can copy an original work then artistry is what you've achieved. It's at that point when your skills set can pretty much render anything you wish to render. And, most people who can copy an original work have a pretty good repertoire of their own original artistry to give back. Rendering an original in variance to the way the artist gave it to us, and expecting it to be warmly embraced, is a leap of faith. It will receive lip service from some as a matter of recognition for trying, which I can see if comradeship is considered more important that the music itself, but then there's the ardent fan's ear expecting better efforts to respect the original artist's rendering.
I have to say, a lot of this confused me. "Covering" has been around as long as music has. To restrict it to the last hundred years or so: Son House, Robert Johnson, those guys didn't write a lot of the songs they recorded, and I take them both very seriously as musicians and artists. Mississippi John Hurt didn't write "Make Me a Pallet on the Floor" or "Spike Driver Blues" or a whole bunch of other songs he recorded beautifully. Short list of artists who have covered Huddie Ledbetter: Pete Seeger, the Grateful Dead, the Beach Boys, Gene Autry, Johnny Cash, Nirvana, Bob Dylan. Speaking of Bob Dylan, he didn't write 'House of the Rising Sun,' and neither did Nina Simone, and neither did the Animals. All great recordings, though. The Beatles were one of the greatest cover bands of all time, and built their performing chops playing covers almost exclusively. Half of Led Zeppelin's first few albums were covers of (or stolen from...) Willie Dixon songs. The list goes on and on and on, and few (if any) of those are "faithful" renditions of the original. Covers aren't new. (The concept of note-for-note 'tribute' bands might be, though.)

And getting back to the artists in the OP's post: Side 1 of James Taylor's Sweet Baby James closes with a cover. On John Denver's "Rocky Mountain High" album: he wrote (or co-wrote) the title track, but three of the six songs on side 1 are covers.

A lot of things changed between 1974 and 2004, sure, but you can't blame cover bands on America's Youth. That's an olllllllllld tradition, and a good one at that.
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  #44  
Old 01-05-2018, 10:42 AM
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KDepew KDepew is offline
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When I play someone else song I learn it just like it is played an then Taylor it to my style. I have a low voice but like to sing. SO I use a capo a lot. I also teach guitar and like to break songs down for beginners to feel successful at playing songs. So I will break it down for them. I also make a song my own and may fingerpick a "strum" song or vice versa.

Basically go with "if it sounds good, it is good"......
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